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Old Apr 3, 2007, 6:15 PM   #21
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gerrydee-

Take a look at my sample photos from the Sony H-5. They were all taken at ISO 400 and they look much better than the S-3/S-2/Panasonic FZ-7 or FZ-8. I own and use a Panasonic FZ-7. The highest ISO setting that you can use without being torn-up with noise is ISO 200. The Sony H-2/H5 and I would imagine the H-7/H-9 are not the exception, and will take excellentphotos at ISO 400, as well. However, even Sony sacrifices some smudging of the fine detail with their heavy noise supression.

That is exactly the issue that drives folks who do a lot of low light level shooting without flash to DSLR cameras. Here is a photo sample taken with the inexpensive Pentax K100D DSLR fitted with an inexpensiveSigma 18-125mm lens. It was taken at ISO 800 with no flash,and is virtually noise free. That is why so many folks are making the move DSLR cameras, particularlyas the DSLR prices continue to come down.

MT/Sarah


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Old Apr 3, 2007, 7:23 PM   #22
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gerry,

Now you've done it...

"IMO, all the UZ's struggle at ISO 400 anyhow. Anything above 200 is a gamble whether it be Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Fugi, Olympus or Kodak to name a few."

In other words, you don't even attempt to take pictures above ISO 200 with your...S3, because you admit it can't handle it? Let's take a look at a professional review for a side by side comparison with a camera (or two) that 'struggles with ISO 400'...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fuji...00fd/page6.asp

You're absolutely correct - according to the graphs on this review page, the S3 noise really takes off above ISO 200...but the other two cams on the same graph don't seem to be quite as bad, do they?

Now, maybe low light photography doesn't appeal to you...maybe you take all of your pictures outside on a bright sunny day - and that's OK - for you. Maybe the OP (who I think ran away a long time ago) wanted some honest, unbiased evaluations between two cameras she suggested. Chest thumping and brand bashing doesn't do anyone any favors. Maybe the S3 has the best movie mode (in bright light)...maybe the S3 has the best IQ (in bright light)...maybe the S3 has a swing out, swiveling, twisting LCD, and maybe that is important for some people. But everyone doesn't always have nice bright sunny days to take pics...some people might have to take pics on overcast, rainy days...or inside - which camera is best then? Just about any camera can take good pics on bright sunny days. The thing that makes a good all around camera is the ability to perform in a variety of conditions.

I don't always agree with or believe every review I see on the web. I like to see actual pics taken by real live average people - like yourself, gerry. So, how about snapping a pic or two - indoors - no flash - at ISO 400 - and maybe ISO 800, and posting them here (with EXIF intact), and show us all, once and for all the superiority of your S3...then I'll shut up.

BTW, I use Opanda IEXIF - it's free...

http://www.opanda.com/en/iexif/index.html

the Hun


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Old Apr 3, 2007, 9:17 PM   #23
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rinniethehun wrote:
Quote:
gerry,

Now you've done it...

"IMO, all the UZ's struggle at ISO 400 anyhow. Anything above 200 is a gamble whether it be Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Fugi, Olympus or Kodak to name a few."

In other words, you don't even attempt to take pictures above ISO 200 with your...S3, because you admit it can't handle it? Let's take a look at a professional review for a side by side comparison with a camera (or two) that 'struggles with ISO 400'...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fuji...00fd/page6.asp

You're absolutely correct - according to the graphs on this review page, the S3 noise really takes off above ISO 200...but the other two cams on the same graph don't seem to be quite as bad, do they?

Now, maybe low light photography doesn't appeal to you...maybe you take all of your pictures outside on a bright sunny day - and that's OK - for you. Maybe the OP (who I think ran away a long time ago) wanted some honest, unbiased evaluations between two cameras she suggested. Chest thumping and brand bashing doesn't do anyone any favors. Maybe the S3 has the best movie mode (in bright light)...maybe the S3 has the best IQ (in bright light)...maybe the S3 has a swing out, swiveling, twisting LCD, and maybe that is important for some people. But everyone doesn't always have nice bright sunny days to take pics...some people might have to take pics on overcast, rainy days...or inside - which camera is best then? Just about any camera can take good pics on bright sunny days. The thing that makes a good all around camera is the ability to perform in a variety of conditions.

I don't always agree with or believe every review I see on the web. I like to see actual pics taken by real live average people - like yourself, gerry. So, how about snapping a pic or two - indoors - no flash - at ISO 400 - and maybe ISO 800, and posting them here (with EXIF intact), and show us all, once and for all the superiority of your S3...then I'll shut up.

BTW, I use Opanda IEXIF - it's free...

http://www.opanda.com/en/iexif/index.html

the Hun

>>In other words, you don't even attempt to take pictures above ISO 200 with your...S3, because you admit it can't handle it? Let's take a look at a professional review for a side by side comparison with a camera (or two) that 'struggles with ISO 400'...

*I never said the S3 can't handle ISO 400. I said they all struggle to get a good quality picture above ISO 200. It seems to be the sweet spot with digitals. You want to take pictures in the dark, use the flash, tripod, that's what they make those for.

>>Now, maybe low light photography doesn't appeal to you...maybe you take all of your pictures outside on a bright sunny day - and that's OK - for you.

*I bought the camera for me. The opinion I offer is from my perspective, not yours or mtclimber. And no, I don't take pictures only on a bright sunny day, I take the picture where and when it appeals to me, I keep my cam on manual and don't worry about the settings, just getting the shot right.

>>Chest thumping and brand bashing doesn't do anyone any favors. Maybe the S3 has the best movie mode (in bright light)...maybe the S3 has the best IQ (in bright light)...maybe the S3 has a swing out, swiveling, twisting LCD, and maybe that is important for some people. But everyone doesn't always have nice bright sunny days to take pics...some people might have to take pics on overcast, rainy days...or inside - which camera is best then?

*What chest thumping? You just said it for me. From your own words here, the Canon S3 is a pretty impressive camera . You can adjust the ISO setting in video on the fly, it's never dark unless you don't know about that feature.
Don't be so defensive, it's only my opinion. The only review I believe in is the view I see on my computer screen after I get home.

>>The thing that makes a good all around camera is the ability to perform in a variety of conditions.

*I will say this, the S3 is the most versatile and full featured UZ presently on the market. You can quote me on that. You want more control than that, you need a DSLR, and you know the $$$ that comes with that. I'm not saying it doesn't have flaws. All cameras have flaws or they would only make one kind and we would all be happy and would not be having this discussion.

>>So, how about snapping a pic or two - indoors - no flash - at ISO 400 - and maybe ISO 800, and posting them here (with EXIF intact), and show us all, once and for all the superiority of your S3...then I'll shut up.

*OK, I'll shoot it under 12 floodlights, or I'll put it on a tripod and expose it for 2 minutes will that make you happy. What do you want to do, take pictures in total darkness? Not my cup of tea.

Still don't know how to do the EXIF thing on this site. I only managed to upload pictures here yesterday after many tries. I can't see the EXIF on the 2 pictures MTclimber posted here. If I right click and go to properties, I get nothing. So where is it?
Maybe I'll just go to the dedicated CanonS3Is.com site with over 2000 members to get the answer. Or the Flickr! Canon S3 forum with over 1200 members.They are a real friendly bunch over there. Haven't had a quibble with anybody since I joined it with about 70 posts behind me. Wonder why this camera has such a big following? Maybe it's got a winning formula?

Don't let this obsession with camera superiority be such a big deal. It's only a crummy little $400.00 camera man...made out of plastic and a little glass. I trade on the stock market, money is relative. If you want the real deal, get a DSLR and a suitcase full of lenses. I'm getting too old for that. I am Lightening up the load.
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Old Apr 3, 2007, 9:25 PM   #24
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mtclimber wrote:
Quote:
gerrydee-

Take a look at my sample photos from the Sony H-5. They were all taken at ISO 400 and they look much better than the S-3/S-2/Panasonic FZ-7 or FZ-8. I own and use a Panasonic FZ-7. The highest ISO setting that you can use without being torn-up with noise is ISO 200. The Sony H-2/H5 and I would imagine the H-7/H-9 are not the exception, and will take excellentphotos at ISO 400, as well. However, even Sony sacrifices some smudging of the fine detail with their heavy noise supression.

That is exactly the issue that drives folks who do a lot of low light level shooting without flash to DSLR cameras. Here is a photo sample taken with the inexpensive Pentax K100D DSLR fitted with an inexpensiveSigma 18-125mm lens. It was taken at ISO 800 with no flash,and is virtually noise free. That is why so many folks are making the move DSLR cameras, particularlyas the DSLR prices continue to come down.

MT/Sarah

Sarah, I agree with you 100%. The new Olympus UZ550 and I'm sure the H9 and the successor to the S3 are going to be in the vicinity of an entry-level DSLR and if I were just getting into the photography business, that's where I would put my money. The UZ's are going to self-destruct if the prices keep going up. You can't compare the quality, it's too huge of a gap.
As for me, I use PP with almost all my pictures. The light thing is not a big deal. I think Hun takes it more personally than I do. It only takes a second to brighten them up or sharpen, crop, get rid of fringing etc...you know what I mean. Maybe I'm too fussy.
On my computer screen is where I make the picture I took look exactly like what my mind's eye saw.
I'm only a hobbyist, I'm in it for the pleasure and excellent pastime this artform gives me. I'm also a guitarist, have been playing the guitar for 44 years, even been on TV once.
Still feel bad about the other day, must have had a bug up my *ss. It's been too cold too long. I hate winter, maybe it's because I live in Canada lol...
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Old Apr 4, 2007, 3:49 AM   #25
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Nothing personal gerry -

Just getting a little sick of:

My camera is the best!

My camera has it's own website!

My camera is the most versatile!

My camera has the best video!

My camera has the best IQ!

My camera has the most features!

If you want to say things like that, go to your little S3 wesbsite and say it - of course no one will argue with you there - they're all like you...living in la-la land over how great their camera is, and what a great choice they made buying it.

You say things like that here, and you get asked to back it up. That's all I want to see - photographic proof of the greatness of the almighty S3 - put up or shut up.

Oh, wait...was that an admission? You can only take pictures indoors if you use 12 floodlights and put the camera on a tripod? That's a great camera? That's versatility?

And who asked you to take pics in total darkness? No me. Pick up your precious little camera right now, and take a picture of an object in the room you're in...hand held...without flash. Should come out great, right? If your camera is so awesome, shouldn't be so difficult. I don't understand why you aren't anxious to show us all what the S3 can do under perfectly normal conditions - taking a picture inside your house. You know why - it can't do it. The S3 can't handle available light pics. That's why you shoot everything in Manual - if your camera goes over ISO 200, you get pure noise. Why can't you admit that - without saying every UZ camera is the same - they're not.

BTW gerry, you didn't respond to my link. Maybe you didn't see it. I'll post it again...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fuji...00fd/page6.asp

Still the best, most versatile full featured UZ on the market?

Don't think so.

the Hun

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Old Apr 4, 2007, 10:01 AM   #26
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rinniethehun wrote:
Quote:
Nothing personal gerry -

Just getting a little sick of:

My camera is the best!

My camera has it's own website!

My camera is the most versatile!

My camera has the best video!

My camera has the best IQ!

My camera has the most features!

If you want to say things like that, go to your little S3 wesbsite and say it - of course no one will argue with you there - they're all like you...living in la-la land over how great their camera is, and what a great choice they made buying it.

You say things like that here, and you get asked to back it up. That's all I want to see - photographic proof of the greatness of the almighty S3 - put up or shut up.

Oh, wait...was that an admission? You can only take pictures indoors if you use 12 floodlights and put the camera on a tripod? That's a great camera? That's versatility?

And who asked you to take pics in total darkness? No me. Pick up your precious little camera right now, and take a picture of an object in the room you're in...hand held...without flash. Should come out great, right? If your camera is so awesome, shouldn't be so difficult. I don't understand why you aren't anxious to show us all what the S3 can do under perfectly normal conditions - taking a picture inside your house. You know why - it can't do it. The S3 can't handle available light pics. That's why you shoot everything in Manual - if your camera goes over ISO 200, you get pure noise. Why can't you admit that - without saying every UZ camera is the same - they're not.

BTW gerry, you didn't respond to my link. Maybe you didn't see it. I'll post it again...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fuji...00fd/page6.asp

Still the best, most versatile full featured UZ on the market?

Don't think so.

the Hun
>>Nothing personal gerry -

Just getting a little sick of:

My camera is the best!

My camera has it's own website!

My camera is the most versatile!

My camera has the best video!

My camera has the best IQ!

My camera has the most features!

**Yes, that is personal. I was only quoting you! And here you are repeating it again.
GROW UP OK! Get over it. It's the best selling camera in it's class. Not your Fugifilm s 6000sd. Think for a minute if you can. There's a reason for that. People who buy UZ's are moving up from the cheaper pocket cameras or SLR's and before they part with their hard-earned cash, they will usually flock to the best onethey can afford that meets their criteria.. It's so simple, why can't you understand this simple fact? What makes Canon the biggest selling camera company in the world and Sony a close second??? Quality!

>>If you want to say things like that, go to your little S3 wesbsite and say it - of course no one will argue with you there - they're all like you...living in la-la land over how great their camera is, and what a great choice they made buying it.

**Sorry, they can't live in la-la land because you're already living there.

>>You say things like that here, and you get asked to back it up. That's all I want to see - photographic proof of the greatness of the almighty S3 - put up or shut up.

**I don't jump through hoops for you or anyone else. If I want to post a pic, I'll do it when I'm good and ready. I like the way you call the S3 "almighty". You sound like a bitter person, "put up or shut up" you told me to shut up if I don't meet your demands, very childish. Were you a "bully" in school?

>>Oh, wait...was that an admission? You can only take pictures indoors if you use 12 floodlights and put the camera on a tripod? That's a great camera? That's versatility?

**
yes, that's why so many people are buying it and not a Fugi. Sorry, I was only joking about the floodlights, I don't own one. There you go go boasting about the S3 being a "great" and "versatile" camera again.

>> The S3 can't handle available light pics. That's why you shoot everything in Manual - if your camera goes over ISO 200, you get pure noise. Why can't you admit that - without saying every UZ camera is the same - they're not.

**
I shoot in Manual because of the versatility of the camera, you have a manual button too don't you, why don't you learn to use it, it makes much better photos. Take a chance and take it off "Auto". Ok, all UZ's are not the same, Canon and Sony make up for the lon's share of the UZ market. The rest are the same.

>> BTW gerry, you didn't respond to my link. Maybe you didn't see it. I'll post it again...

**
I've already read that post many moons ago. I'm a trader on the stock market, it's my business to do research and study charts and I'm pretty good at it. It wasn't enough to steer me to that camera, though I admit it is a really nice camera, but not for my needs, too big, no IS, movie mode not the best. But here, maybe this will make you feel better:

The Fugifilm s6000fd is the best camera ever produced!!!
Now, feel better?

In closing, the OP was inquiring about purchasing an S3 and was needing info regarding certain concerns she had such as a loose lens cap (there's a tether on it). Too bad she never got her answers because you hi-jacked the thread again as I've seen you do over and over again all over this forum.
Can't you think of anything original to post about. You're getting to be a nuisance. You've got thousands of posts in this forum, don't you have anything better to do. IMO, you are way too sensitive for this form of communication. You are getting way too personal.
Think about it.

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Old Apr 4, 2007, 11:17 AM   #27
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gerry,

The purpose of the link I posted was to show a direct comparison between the S3 and the H2. The OP was comparing the S3 to the H2...that's why I posted that link. I referred you to the graphs on that page. If you had read my post instead of reacting to the word Fugi [sic], you would have realized that...then again, maybe you wouldn't have. What did Fuji ever do to you, gerry? Did you used to work for them and they fired you or something? And when did I hijack the thread? After you had your little tiff with MT?

"Sorry, they can't live in la-la land because you're already living there."

"Were you a "bully" in school?"

"You're getting to be a nuisance."

Sticks and stones gerry...

the Hun
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Old Apr 4, 2007, 11:24 AM   #28
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Keoeeit, I wish everybody who posted in this forum were as calm, knowledgeable and rational as you. I've read many or your posts and responses and you get to the point without getting emotional and try pushing an agenda or product on others and without hi-jacking somebody else's thread. Pleasure "reading" you...
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Old Apr 4, 2007, 11:29 AM   #29
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Old Apr 4, 2007, 11:34 AM   #30
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rhinniethehun said:
What did Fuji ever do to you, gerry? Did you used to work for them and they fired you or something?

****No, I still work for them.
See, there you go getting personal again.
Here, shake hands...let it go.

gerry

hey you might want to read this, very informational:

Just released sales figures for the major camera makers:

Canon Leads in Digital Camera Shipments in 2006, According to IDC
(News article from the PMA Newsline International)

Canon Inc., Tokyo, Japan, took the top market share in global digital camera shipments in 2006, and Samsung Electronics, Seoul, South Korea, jumped to fifth place from ninth a year ago, Framington, Mass.-based researcher IDC said.
Canon shipped 19.7 million digital cameras in 2006, accounting for 18.7 percent of the overall market. Canon's shipments jumped 23.3 percent from 2005, according to IDC.
Industry wide digital camera shipments in 2006 rose 14.5 percent to 106 million units from a year earlier, driven by the strong popularity of DSLR models geared toward photo enthusiasts and professionals and growing demand in emerging markets, IDC said. DSLR shipments grew 39 percent to 5 million units last year.
Sony Corp., Tokyo, Japan, was No. 2 in the market with a 15.8 percent share, up from 15.2 percent in 2005, benefiting from its entry into the DSLR market, according to IDC. Eastman Kodak Co., the only U.S. company among the top five digital camera makers, ranked third with 10 percent, a drop from its 14.2 percent share a year earlier. Japan-based Olympus Corp., which came in fourth, trimmed its share to 8.6 percent from 9.8 percent in 2005.
"The big winner in 2006 was Samsung, who displaced Nikon and became the fifth-largest seller of digital cameras in the world," said Christopher Chute, an IDC analyst.
Samsung expanded its market share to 7.8 percent in 2006, a huge jump from the 3.8 percent it had a year earlier. Its shipments more than doubled, IDC said.
Nikon Corp., Tokyo, Japan, the world's second-biggest maker of professional cameras after Canon, ranked No. 6 in the overall digital camera market with a 7.6 percent market share in 2006.
Canon also dominated the growing DSLR market, securing a 46.7 percent share in 2006, with its shipments rising 30.7 percent from a year earlier. But its share was trimmed from the 49.5 percent it had in 2006 amid increased competition from rivals.
Nikon secured the No. 2 position in DSLRs with a 33 percent market share. Its shipments jumped 35.9 percent. Sony, which bought the DSLR unit of Konica Minolta Holdings shipped 326,240 DSLRs in 2006, accounting for 6.2 percent of the market




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