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Old Apr 9, 2007, 6:23 PM   #11
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jpmann66 wrote:
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Erie County Community College, $125 per credit hour for residents....I think there is an "audit" option to attend half price for those who have more academic credits than we know what to do with..... class is AT220 Photography in the Communiaitons / media arts dept.

john

*
What kind of photography? Look I am not "Tooting My Horn" but save yourself the money and just go listen to an interview I gave on an Internet Podcast about making it in the business. Even though I am a Fashion-Beauty-Advertising photographer, it will apply to any of the disciplines in photography.

It is in 3 Parts. Here are the links. One to the site and another directly to the MP3 site. Hope you garner some information from it...

Ben

http://www.camerawaves.com/

MP3 Link:

http://www.eravedesigns.com/erave/podcasts/podcast1.xml

http://www.pressbook.com/homebook.as...&owner_id=5144
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 3:02 AM   #12
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*Yawn.*
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It is the photographer and not the camera that captures the image.

How incredibly original -love to see you capture that image without a camera though.

Yes, we know that you COULD use a $5 disposable camera because you are such a genius. But what camera set up do you ACTUALLY use?

If you actually use a "professional" or at least "semi-professional" setup then you are:

1. Very sensible. One buys the best equipment one can reasonably afford to express your artistic sensibilities/do your job.

2. Full of self-righteous nonsense for the original post.

These forums are mostly about equipment, that's what they are here for. There are plenty of art-photo sites where you would be regarded as a cretin for even mentioning what camera you are using.

If you don't like talking about equipment then don't visit equipment forums.

Just about every post on this forum comes down to:

I have a budget of X, I like taking photos of Y. What is the best I can do? Is that really such a terrible question to ask? One that deserves scorn and derision? Is it really one that you have never had to wrestle with yourself?
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 8:06 AM   #13
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benjikan wrote:
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...Most of the present day DSLR's can be used professionally.
Ben - I have to disagree here to an extent. Sure, every DSLR is capable of producing great images. And I certainly agree more MP isn't a guarantee of success. And yes, the photographer makes the most difference. But, having the right tool for the job can make all the difference in the world.

Take 2 wildlife photogs of the same skill level. Give one a Nikon D2x or Canon mk II N and a 600mm f4 lens and the other a Nikon D40 and kit lens. Over 10 shoots, who is going to get better photos? Now, let's make it more interesting - give the d40 user the same 400mm f4 lens and do 10 more shoots of birds in flight. Who is going to get better results? Answer - simple, the photog with the d2x or mk II N because the focus systems of those cameras are leagues above what is in the D40.

Or, let's say you are a sports shooter that is shooting gymnastics - very low light and flash/strobe isn't allowed. You need fast/accurate autofocus and clean high ISO performance. Think the Oly 330 is going to get you the shots you need compared to the pro level cameras that have precision cross-type focusing? Or how 'bout that D40 again? What, it won't autofocus with prime lenses currently available? So, manual focus, huh? Not the end of the world, but think they'll get the same amount of keepers? Doubtful.

Not to mention all the other little things that allow a pro to change/alter settings quickly without having to go into menus and thus they do it more rapidly.

So, can all DSLRS produce great images with enough detail for a magazine? Sure.

But, there's an enormous difference between artistic photography and photojournalism/sports/wildlife where you have limited time and having the edges that professional level lenses/cameras/tripods makes all the difference between getting the shot and not getting it.
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 10:11 AM   #14
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peripatetic wrote:
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*Yawn.*
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It is the photographer and not the camera that captures the image.
*

How incredibly original -*love to see you capture that image without a camera though.

Yes, we know that you COULD use a $5 disposable camera because you are such a genius. But what camera set up do you ACTUALLY use?

If you actually use a "professional" or at least "semi-professional" setup then you are:

1. Very sensible. One buys the best equipment one can reasonably afford to express your artistic sensibilities/do your job.

2. Full of self-righteous nonsense for the original post.

These forums are mostly about equipment, that's what they are here for. There are plenty of art-photo sites where you would be regarded as a cretin for even mentioning what camera you are using.

If you don't like talking about equipment then don't visit equipment forums.

Just about every post on this forum comes down to:

I have a budget of X, I like taking photos of Y. What is the best I can do? Is that really such a terrible question to ask? One that deserves scorn and derision? Is it really one that you have never had to wrestle with yourself?
What are you so angry about? Yes, I did in fact once shoot an advertorial with 80 Fuji Disposable on Flash camera's for Vogue Italy in the early nineties. I don't have a problem talking about camera's as I have owned pretty well all of them from 35mm to 8"x10" Sinar.

Yes I am a professional photographer with 27 years of experience and I presently shoot with 3 Pentax K10D bodies, battery grips and 7 lenses i.e; the 21,31,40,50,70,100 and 16-45 and 12-24 zooms. I also own 4 Canon bodies 2x1D Mkll's a Canon 20D and a 350D and 7 lenses that being a 28,35,50,90 Tamron Macro, 17-40L and a walk around Sigma 18-200.

The camera decision will be based on specific criteria and does not automatically come down to a choice of either Canon or Nikon. What concerned me was that there is a tendency to site only two choices that being Canon or Nikon as being the only brands available when making a professional choice. That is one of the reasons that prompted me to write this post. The choice of the camera should be in response to criteria and not brand acknowledgment.

No I am not a genius..Just have a bit of experience to share for those interested.
I'd be interested to have a look at some of your work. Perhaps you could share some of it with us.

None the less thanks for your kind remarks..Very illuminating to say the least.

Ben
http://www.benjaminkanarek.com/
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 12:04 PM   #15
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Surely its a bit of both - you need appropriate kit to be matched with appropriate skills. I am just starting my journey with a dLSR and chose the Canon. It was the right price for me and is more flexible than my old G5, which I love.

I could have saved a bit longer and bought a Nikon/Pentax but I was keen to get going, safe in the knowledge that whatever I wanted to do the Canon would not let me down.

So, in essance, I feel Ben makes a good point, or as Nike would say 'Just do it'.

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Old Apr 10, 2007, 12:14 PM   #16
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benjikan wrote:
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The camera decision will be based on specific criteria and does not automatically come down to a choice of either Canon or Nikon. What concerned me was that there is a tendency to site only two choices that being Canon or Nikon as being the only brands available when making a professional choice. That is one of the reasons that prompted me to write this post. The choice of the camera should be in response to criteria and not brand acknowledgment.
Now, I agree with this statement for the most part. You should make your choice based on requirements - 100% agree. But, you are matching those requirements against the DSLR SYSTEM and not just camera body. The system as a whole also needs to be a good match. And, this is true at any level - not just professional level. In one respect it's a lot easier at the professional level in that the pro in qestion has a good understanding of photography and what attributes of a camera or system are important for the type of photography they do. It's probably the most challenging for the enthusiest who is still growing/defining what types of photography they are most interested in and thus choosing a camera system that will be able to support their needs 2,3,4 years down the road. The camera they first bought looked great for their needs at the time - but 2 years later they find not only the camera doesn't support their needs well, but the system as a whole does not. Forums are riddled with people that changed systems afer a very short period with an entry level DSLR.
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 4:06 PM   #17
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What prompted your post in the first place?

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What concerned me was that there is a tendency to site only two choices that being Canon or Nikon as being the only brands available when making a professional choice. That is one of the reasons that prompted me to write this post. The choice of the camera should be in response to criteria and not brand acknowledgment.
This has NEVER been true of this site. The advice here has always been to try to establish what type of photography one wants to pursue and determine the best fit within the budget available. For the most part on these forums, if someone makes a poor choice, it can be a costly mistake - one which might put them off photography for good.

Spend an hour browsing here and make a list of all the pixel-peeping threads you can find. There are very few and pixel-peepers don't last long here, they find better sustenance on other forums.

Most of us (unlike you) don't get given our cameras for free, and though a few do make some money from photography, very few are full-time professionals.

Some of us use Canon, some use Nikon, some Pentax, some Sony and others too. The advice for sports and wildlife usually comes down to Canon or Nikon, but for other types of photography other cameras brands are often recommended above Canon or Nikon. As it happens I can only think of one person who thinks one brand is always the best solution and he happens to recommend the K10D as the best solution for everything.

As it happens I think most people on this forum think the K10D is an awesome camera and is significantly ahead (at the moment - these things change from time to time) of the Canon and Nikon offerings in the same price bracket.

You don't need to keep posting links to your website, some of us actually know who you are. Your work speaks for itself. But the condescention you displayed in your original post is what annoyed me. You didn't even bother to read what is posted here before bestowing your wisdom. This is not DPReview or FredMiranda.

If you want to help people here with equipment choice or even better with improving their photography then I for one would love to learn from what you could teach. But a good teacher makes a reasonable attempt to find out a little bit about his students first.

I certainly don't speak for everyone here. But for my part you would be most welcome in the Critiques and Techniques and People forums here. And if you would be welcome over at the Steve's Forums Kollaborators group on Flickr.

I have no credentials, I'm just an amateur and I take snapshots, landscape and portraits of my friends and family. I can't post any work to compare with yours. But if you really want to help us instead of just show off then I would very much welcome any comments you may care to make on my Flickr photostream.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peripat...7594434616919/

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Old Apr 10, 2007, 5:18 PM   #18
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peripatetic wrote:
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What prompted your post in the first place?

Quote:
What concerned me was that there is a tendency to site only two choices that being Canon or Nikon as being the only brands available when making a professional choice. That is one of the reasons that prompted me to write this post. The choice of the camera should be in response to criteria and not brand acknowledgment.
This has NEVER been true of this site. The advice here has always been to try to establish what type of photography one wants to pursue and determine the best fit within the budget available. For the most part on these forums, if someone makes a poor choice, it can be a costly mistake - one which might put them off photography for good.

Spend an hour browsing here and make a list of all the pixel-peeping threads you can find. There are very few and pixel-peepers don't last long here, they find better sustenance on other forums.

Most of us (unlike you) don't get given our cameras for free, and though a few do make some money from photography, very few are full-time professionals.

Some of us use Canon, some use Nikon, some Pentax, some Sony and others too. The advice for sports and wildlife usually comes down to Canon or Nikon, but for other types of photography other cameras brands are often recommended above Canon or Nikon. As it happens I can only think of one person who thinks one brand is always the best solution and he happens to recommend the K10D as the best solution for everything.

As it happens I think most people on this forum think the K10D is an awesome camera and is significantly ahead (at the moment - these things change from time to time) of the Canon and Nikon offerings in the same price bracket.

You don't need to keep posting links to your website, some of us actually know who you are. Your work speaks for itself. But the condescention you displayed in your original post is what annoyed me. You didn't even bother to read what is posted here before bestowing your wisdom. This is not DPReview or FredMiranda.

If you want to help people here with equipment choice or even better with improving their photography then I for one would love to learn from what you could teach. But a good teacher makes a reasonable attempt to find out a little bit about his students first.

I certainly don't speak for everyone here. But for my part you would be most welcome in the Critiques and Techniques and People forums here. And if you would be welcome over at the Steve's Forums Kollaborators group on Flickr.

I have no credentials, I'm just an amateur and I take snapshots, landscape and portraits of my friends and family. I can't post any work to compare with yours. But if you really want to help us instead of just show off then I would very much welcome* any comments you may care to make on my Flickr photostream.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peripat...7594434616919/
Hello;

I went and spent some time at your flickr.com site. All I will say here is "Magique"..The portraits are truly "Reportage" and profoundly pure and unencumbered. I especially love "Fish Gazing", "Whee" is Phenomenal similar to the classic Robert Doisneau style, and "Creek" is so purely complete. You just let your subjects be...I posted a comment on your site.

Thanks for sharing...Bravo!

Ben
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Old Apr 11, 2007, 3:07 AM   #19
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Holy cow. Ben Kanarek said that about my pictures!

Great podcasts by the way. And you said nothing in there about equipment that I think anyone here would disagree with. And some fantastic anecdotes, especially loved the one about your start in Milan.

I wasn't actually being sarcastic when I said "genius", I hadin fact seen some of your work before you posted here.

Why was I so angry at first? Well because I can be a grumpy a***ole sometimes. I often have to apologise for it too. So here goes another one. Sorry mate. :roll:

But seriously if you do drop in here from time to time I'm sure everyone would love it.


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Old Apr 11, 2007, 4:51 AM   #20
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Me too..Kiss ...Make Up? .. .No tongues!!!..Awe schucks isn't life grand?

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