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Old Apr 19, 2007, 10:08 AM   #21
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A1_II wrote:
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Which camera system are you in I am curious?

By the way, thanks for your piece of strong advice too.

I just need to state that whatever I have just said about the cameras above ARE SUBJECTIVE.
To answer your question, I own a canon DSLR.

About your comments being subjective - of course they are subjective - and there is nothing wrong with that. Just like opinions on cars are subjective. Just because I love Toyota doesn't mean it's the right manufacturer for you.

But back to cameras - I believe in the following approach with DSLRs:

1. Identify what types of photography you want to do.

2. Become educated (preferably from people who actually do that same type of photography) on what features are iportant to achieving your photographic goals.

3. Research how each SYSTEM performs against those requirements - the key here is system - there is more to photography than the camera body. It's importanat, but lenses, flashes etc. are also important.

4. Establish a budget.

5. Given the 4 steps above, try to eliminate contenders to narrow your list to 2-3 cameras that BEST fit your needs.

6. Try them out - whichever feels best to you, then go with it.

The challenge is there are plenty of us on this sight that are very happy with our camera - we bought it and thus we feel it's the best camera for everyone. Sometimes that's OK when the person doing the suggesting is doing the exact type of photography YOU want to do and they are doing it at a level YOU want to achieve. Many times though there isn't a direct match. And you get people trying to convince you that you MUST have a certain feature - "this camera has good ISO 3200 performance - you definitely want that" (even if you have no stated plans to shoot low light) or "this camera has the best focus tracking - that's important" (even if you have no plans to shoot moving subjects) or "you need to have in-body anti-shake" (even if you aren't planning on shooting in conditions where anti-shake is adventageous". The key, IMO, to looking at advice is to see how people match features of a camera/system against YOUR STATED needs.

At this point in the game, you've done most of the above - you were down to a few cameras / systems that were all capable of meeting your needs. Using subjective criteria to decide among the 3 is perfectly rational.

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Old Apr 19, 2007, 10:48 AM   #22
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Dude, just buy the D80. it's a fantastic camera, and as everyone has already said, if you like the feel of it, that's the main thing.

Most of these cameras average out to about the same overall - all will have strengths and all will have weaknesses. You will not find a "perfect" camera, so if you are using a camera that is comfortable to operate then you will shoot more than if you use something that's more cumbersome.

Seriously, don't wait for a consensus because you'll never get one. go with what feels right!
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Old Apr 19, 2007, 10:55 AM   #23
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I have a D80 with the 18-135mm kit lens, I just love this camera!,I also have the 50mm F\1.8 (like you), wow what a sharp lens that is, hard to master in low light and a bit soft wide open but stopped down a bit and it performs way above it's price range.

One thing I like about the D80 is the Auto ISO feature, you specify the maximun ISO setting it will go and at what shutter speed. For example when using my 50mm I set it to ISO 800 or 1600 and the shutter speed to a min of 1\60, it works a treat!

Buy the D80, you won't regret it at all.

and the kit lens is great too!




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Old Apr 19, 2007, 11:19 AM   #24
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Just buy the damn Nikon!

Only joking. Seriously though, as someone else has said before me, if it feels comfortable then that's the one. I was in exactly the same position as you a week ago and settled on the D80 with 18-135mm lens for precisely the same reasons. I haven't regretted it for a minute.
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Old Apr 19, 2007, 11:26 AM   #25
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JohnG wrote:
Quote:
A1_II wrote:
Quote:
Which camera system are you in I am curious?

By the way, thanks for your piece of strong advice too.

I just need to state that whatever I have just said about the cameras above ARE SUBJECTIVE.
To answer your question, I own a canon DSLR.

About your comments being subjective - of course they are subjective - and there is nothing wrong with that. Just like opinions on cars are subjective. Just because I love Toyota doesn't mean it's the right manufacturer for you.

But back to cameras - I believe in the following approach with DSLRs:

1. Identify what types of photography you want to do.

2. Become educated (preferably from people who actually do that same type of photography) on what features are iportant to achieving your photographic goals.

3. Research how each SYSTEM performs against those requirements - the key here is system - there is more to photography than the camera body. It's importanat, but lenses, flashes etc. are also important.

4. Establish a budget.

5. Given the 4 steps above, try to eliminate contenders to narrow your list to 2-3 cameras that BEST fit your needs.

6. Try them out - whichever feels best to you, then go with it.

The challenge is there are plenty of us on this sight that are very happy with our camera - we bought it and thus we feel it's the best camera for everyone. Sometimes that's OK when the person doing the suggesting is doing the exact type of photography YOU want to do and they are doing it at a level YOU want to achieve. Many times though there isn't a direct match. And you get people trying to convince you that you MUST have a certain feature - "this camera has good ISO 3200 performance - you definitely want that" (even if you have no stated plans to shoot low light) or "this camera has the best focus tracking - that's important" (even if you have no plans to shoot moving subjects) or "you need to have in-body anti-shake" (even if you aren't planning on shooting in conditions where anti-shake is adventageous". The key, IMO, to looking at advice is to see how people match features of a camera/system against YOUR STATED needs.

At this point in the game, you've done most of the above - you were down to a few cameras / systems that were all capable of meeting your needs. Using subjective criteria to decide among the 3 is perfectly rational.
JohnG, thanks.

Your advice will benefit others looking to get into the dSLR system too.

Great, you are a Canon shooter. I also have many friends who are Canon shooters too.

Sadly, it looks like I will eventually be a Nikon shooter. :sad: I do like Canon a lot too.

I do think that Canon's offerings in the higher level are more attractive and interesting; such as the full frame Canon EOS 5D and those nice L glasses. :sad:

Nikon only have the D200 and the D2Xs type of models...One that is not a big enough jump for the D80 user to take, and the other a far too big a jump at once...

For pro glasses, Nikon also have very few and less interesting options available. :sad:

For Film SLR cameras, it is no doubt that Nikon might very well be the leader and the best out there, that is why I choose the Nikon F100 film SLR - I didn't see any Canon offerings that could match it during that time, not to mention how many other great SLR cameras Nikon has produced, compared to Canon...As far as I know when it comes to film SLR cameras, Nikon takes the lead.

On the other hand when it comes to dSLR cameras, it will not be a doubt that Canon is the best out there currently in my opinion.

Nikon might be having the edge over Canon in the lower segment, and that is also the area where Nikon seems to be focusing on the most right now.

Canon still takes the lead when it comes to professional solutions - larger CMOS sensors (1.3x), full frame, and professional optics such as those F/1.2L primes. (This is the area where Nikon just cannot compete speaking of currently.)

Somehow I think Nikon has brought me with their D80, and they were smart to bring out such a well thought out camera too; knowing that they will have the opportunity to catch some potential photographers into their camera system. (Canon is also very successful in this area too, but Nikon has gotten more aggressive with the D80.) Frankly I think Nikon has pushed the entry level a bit too far, they have made the Nikon D80 so good that people can just decide between it and the higher end D200 model - to the extend that even some D200 planners can just drop the D200 for the D80. On the other hand, the price range of the Nikon D80 is also higher than the entry level mark by a lot. So where Canon still maintains their entry level design tradition and price mark with their EOS 400D/XTi, Nikon has took it all a step further with the Nikon D80. (The D80 is more well featured and is also more expensive at the same time.)

Nikon does have one big advantage though, and that is the build quality and ergonomics of their SLR and dSLR cameras. All these can be said as subjective, but the majority I have observed have preferred the build quality and ergonomics of Nikon SLR and dSLR cameras. Nikon lenses are also generally more solid and robust than Canon lenses and all this applies to the non pro lenses only. In the pro lens area, I think both Canon L glasses and Nikon professional glasses are just as well build.

A lot of people also love the design of Nikon's SLR cameras, dSLR cameras, and lenses.
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Old Apr 19, 2007, 12:05 PM   #26
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It is great to hear from some Nikon D80 owners. Generally, how many MB does a Nikon D80 RAW file take up? I am also keen to know how many megapixels is the lowest resolution of the Nikon D80's image size selection - the biggest being 10 megapixels.

How many shots can you people normally get in with a full charge?


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Old Apr 19, 2007, 9:43 PM   #27
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A1_II wrote:
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It is great to hear from some Nikon D80 owners. Generally, how many MB does a Nikon D80 RAW file take up? I am also keen to know how many megapixels is the lowest resolution of the Nikon D80's image size selection - the biggest being 10 megapixels.

How many shots can you people normally get in with a full charge?

I don't have a Nikon, but the amount of shots will vary any camera depending on how it's used. If you use the onboard flash, you will eat up the battery quicker. I generally don't use the onboard flash andI can shoot al day long with my Maxxum 7D.There are alsodisplay settings on most cameras that will conserve on power. In all honesty, I could care less how long my battery lasts since I always carry more than one. The best bet on batteries are to avoid the cheap ones. I use only the OEM or well known equivalents.
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Old Apr 19, 2007, 10:32 PM   #28
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A1_II wrote:
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What I meant was that the Pentax K10D will not use any of its surrounding 10 focus points other that its center focus point only when in auto mode.
This is the point I was trying to correct. I spent 5 minutes this morning with my K10 in the green auto mode, put the AF selection dial to automatic (where the camera chooses which focus point it uses) and then pointed to a variety of subjects. On the second try it lit up several points. I then changed the AF selection dial to user select, and moved the focus point around. So the camera WILL use any or all of the focus points in auto.

I still think you should get the D80, but just wanted you to know that you had been given some incorrect information about the AF points and auto mode on the K10.
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Old Apr 20, 2007, 2:55 AM   #29
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mtngal wrote:
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A1_II wrote:
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What I meant was that the Pentax K10D will not use any of its surrounding 10 focus points other that its center focus point only when in auto mode.
This is the point I was trying to correct. I spent 5 minutes this morning with my K10 in the green auto mode, put the AF selection dial to automatic (where the camera chooses which focus point it uses) and then pointed to a variety of subjects. On the second try it lit up several points. I then changed the AF selection dial to user select, and moved the focus point around. So the camera WILL use any or all of the focus points in auto.

I still think you should get the D80, but just wanted you to know that you had been given some incorrect information about the AF points and auto mode on the K10.
Thanks for clarifying it all to me, now I understand.

So the K10D by default uses the center auto focus point only?

And ya, I am already planning to get the Nikon D80.

I also want to thanks everybody who have contributed to this thread - who have got me engaged into some very interesting discussions.

:-)

By the way, can the Pentax K10D pop up its build in flash automatically?
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Old Apr 20, 2007, 8:01 AM   #30
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The K10 has a separate control on the camera body that sets the AF mode. I can't remember how that dial was set when I got my camera out of the box, and it is easy to change (a previous person testing the same camera might have put it on center focus). It isn't like some other cameras where the control is in a menu and the camera is set to a default when it is shipped (the K100 is set up that way).

I don't know about the auto pop-up of the flash - that's something I have always de-activated first thing on any camera, or use a mode where it won't happen (last 3 cameras) and I'm not where my manual is.
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