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Old May 26, 2007, 9:17 PM   #11
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RGA wrote:
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They want $810.00 for the 400 body only. Strangely they want $570.00 for the Kiss X which is exactly the same camera for the Japanese market.
That sounds a little too much like "gray market" to me. If something goes wrong, with the Kiss X be covered by the factory warranty?

RGA wrote:
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Canon makes me buy the CF lense which is odd since all entry Canon's have SD and all their top models have SD -- this makes me buy the apparently slower CF cards.
The CF cards are not slower than the SD cards. In fact, since the CF is the larger and more widely used package (not just in digicams, but in a variety of devices) manufacturers usually introduce their best and fastest products in CF before the other formats.

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Then Canon does not offer a "vacation" lense in the 18-200mm range. The 28-135 is a compromise and the kit lense is suppose to be dreadful. These raise the price to around $1100.00Won (worth more than the US or Canadian dollar)

Then there is Nikon - I could live with the feel but apparently the 40X is limited to certain lenses, the Nikon 40X with their nicer 18-200mm VR lense which is the size I want runs $1320.00. Which is too much for me.

The Kiss X body seems to be reasonably priced but now I need a lense - it does have that lense cleaning system but for now I would prefer a one lense set-up. Ideally I could connect the Nikon VR 18-200 lense to the Kiss X. Argghh.
Actually, I'd call the 18-200 the compromise lens. When I bought my KM5D, I got it with the KM 18-200 (a rebranded Tamron.) Initially I was pleased with it, but since I've had a chance to try other lenses, I can't find one that isn't better than the 18-200. Now I have a $400 lens that I don't ever use. It is a "jack of all trades, master of none" and I want more.

I think you would be better served by two moderate zooms than one super-zoom.
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Old May 26, 2007, 10:09 PM   #12
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thanks

A fellow I work with used to work in the press and prefers the CF cards - he also suggested Canon a while back because of the sheer number of lenses and that everyone in the press and paparazzi use Canon cameras. Not that that makes them better picture takers but numbers are important sometimes espeicailly buying used.

When you say moderate zoom I get confused. You see I was planning awhile ago to buy one of those 12X zoom cameras from Canon or Panasonic.

And fo course I don't understand the conversion. 12X zoom to me implies you take an image and blow it up 12 times. I looked on Canon's handy site with a picture taken at 28 and then 135 and 200 etc to see the zoom.

But the seem cheaply made to me - and I didn;t love the Canon 2 IS for picture quality. Jack of all maste rof none seems to apply.

The Kiss X is the exact same camera They were willing to sell the 40X body only for $550.00. I believe the Nikon D80 for $910.00. The Kiss X

135mm is enough zoom -- so is a Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM a good all around lense?

I could probably get the Kiss X and this lense for about $1k.
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Old May 27, 2007, 2:59 AM   #13
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Ok

Upon further research - I may be able to get the D80 with the 18mm-135mm lit lens for about $100.00 less than the 400D body and their 28mm-135mm lens.

So the question is - is if the 40X is the competing model with the 400EOS -- would the D80 be the obvious way to go?

The D80 also uses SD cards which I alread have so I would not need to buy the CF card for about $35.00.

Maybe I'm overthinking everything. I'll have to hold the D80 but it seems to be a heck of a good camera with the Kit lens that makes the most sense for a beginner.

thanks again
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Old May 27, 2007, 10:48 AM   #14
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RGA-

For me, I really want a camera that is excellent at taking the kind of photos that I like to take. The Nikon D-80, with the Nikkor 18-135mm kit lensis certainly a good choice for my style of shooting. Clearly it is better than the Canon 400D. But that is me.

Does the Nikon D-80 match your style of shooting?

MT/Sarah
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Old May 27, 2007, 12:50 PM   #15
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And fo course I don't understand the conversion. 12X zoom to me implies you take an image and blow it up 12 times. I looked on Canon's handy site with a picture taken at 28 and then 135 and 200 etc to see the zoom.
12x just means the tele end is 12 times the wide end. It doesn't tell you how much actual magnification. Most people think it does (and the marketing folks probably like it that way).

On your S2IS, the actual focal length of the lens was about 6mm-72mm. But they normally report it instead in 35mm equivalent. Because the sensor on that camera is 1/6 the size (along the diagnol) of 35mm film, you multiply by 6 to get the 35mm equivalent, which is 36mm-432mm.

The 6 in that example is often referred to as a "crop factor", because it's as though you are taking a crop out of what the 35mm film image would be. The DSLRs you are looking at have much larger sensors, but still smaller than 35mm film. The Nikon has a 1.5 crop factor and the Canon a 1.6 crop factor. And the lenses for these are sold by actual focal length, you have to figure out the equivalent for yourself.

So a 100mm-300mm lens, for example, would be a 3x zoom lens. But at it's longest telephoto, it would be a 450mm equivalent on the Nikon or a 480mm equialent on the Canon. Which is actually just a bit more magnification than you get from your S2.

Good quality long telephoto lenses though normally require alot of good glass, and therfore can quickly get very expensive, and heavy. And long zooms also often involve some compromises.

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Old May 27, 2007, 3:27 PM   #16
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RGA wrote:
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When you say moderate zoom I get confused. You see I was planning awhile ago to buy one of those 12X zoom cameras from Canon or Panasonic.

And fo course I don't understand the conversion. 12X zoom to me implies you take an image and blow it up 12 times. I looked on Canon's handy site with a picture taken at 28 and then 135 and 200 etc to see the zoom.
A 10x zoom is a super zoom. An 18-200 is a 200/18, or an 11x zoom. A 28-135 is a 135/28 or a 4.8x zoom. A 70-210 is a 3x zoom, but so is a 100-300, and a so is a 17-50. The "x" doesn't represent the focal length; its just an indication of how much "zoom" is in the zoom lens.

Something along the lines of a 3x to 5x zoom would be a moderate zoom. When I said thatI think you would be better served by two moderate zooms, I meant maybe a 70-200 (3x) and a 28-105 (4x), instead of an 18-200 (11x). I think you'd get better pictures with thetwo moderate zooms than the one super zoom, but you would have to change lenses ocassionally.

RGA wrote:
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The Kiss X is the exact same camera
I understand that the "Kiss X" is the same camera as the 400D, but sometimes when a camera is sold outside its intended market, a different company handles the warranty. The company that handles the warranty for the 400D might not honor the warranty on a Kiss X. (This may not be something they tell you about in the store unless you ask.)

That's what is meant by "gray market," and that's why I ask about it.

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is a Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM a good all around lense?
PhotoDo gives it a user rating of 4.05 out of 5, and an MTF score of 3.5 out of 5. Both are very good scores.
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Old May 27, 2007, 5:06 PM   #17
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I use the Canon 28-135mmIS lens. I like the lens a lot and it gives excellent results. However, when used with the XTi or the 20D the effective focal length is roughly 42-200mm, due to the smaller sized APS-C sensor.

Here is a sample photo taken with the Canon 28-135mmIS lens.

If you are interested in a little economy, take a look at the Sigma 18-125mm lens. I use it all the time on my 20D with great results. It is a nice lens. I bought the lens for $(US)140.00 on ebay. No, it does not have IS. But please remember that IS is best for using low shutter speeds. As long as I keep my shutter speed up there, I have no problems at all with the Sigma 18-125mm lens. It could save you some bucks.

MT/Sarah

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Old May 27, 2007, 5:40 PM   #18
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Here is the same environment with a photo taken with my Canon XT and the Sigma 18-125mm lens to give you a comparison.

MT/Sarah
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Old May 27, 2007, 6:21 PM   #19
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Thanks everyone - now I think I understand the zoom. I figured the marketing folks would be using numbers to sway our buying dollars - and if you don't really understand cameras and you say 12X zoom that means bigger is better - just like megapixels.

Anyway, I'm a teacher so I would like good indoor results - but I think I would generally use it outdoors in nice weather. I don't have the 2IS just used it a while a few years ago and I didn't really like it. I have a Canon Digital Elph 300 which is ok to take to a nightclub but it's not terribly exciting beyond that.

I'll pick up the D80 and see how it feels. I think it will come down to the best deal that I can get. I will check out the warranty on the Kiss X to make sure there is one.

Thanks for the pictures on the two 28-135mm lenses.. Hmm They were certainly different results.

I'll let everyone know which way I went in a few weeks.

Thanks
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