Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > What Camera Should I Buy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jun 7, 2007, 11:34 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
flippedgazelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 930
Default

No doubt, Sarah, that the XTi is an excellent camera, but when folks see a feature advertised, the assumption is that the so-called feature is an effective one, and in the case of Canon, Nikon, and others in the article I referenced above, the "dust reduction mode" is not. IMO, just from what I have gathered from you and all the other DSLR users on this forum, "dust reduction" is not even a truly critical feature.

I've seen, too many times, consumers get hooked on a particular feature or aspect of a product and then come away bitterly disappointed. As a partial aside, cameras (like my Fuji) that advertise "picture stabilization", "shake reduction", etc. that are merely ISO boosts or software manipulations are just as guilty.

After working for over a dozen years in the computer/technology center, I've seen a lot...

Chris
flippedgazelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 7, 2007, 11:49 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,241
Default

St Iletto wrote:
Quote:
fldspringer - thank you! Gosh, those are the kind of shots I'd love to take.

===========

So now I am really leaning towards the Canon XTi and hope to hit the shops tomorrow so I can hold one in my hands. I'm hoping this will be positive as I've realised that the only way I'm going to get the shots I crave is with a DSLR. So I'd better like it! *LOL*

My next question then is the lens... My budget for a DSLR + lens is more generous than what I initially stated for the zoom. I wouldn't balk at $1500/$2000 - it is important that I have a piece of equipment that can give me the results I crave (once I learn how to use it) i.e. I'd rather spend a little more than be disappointed or need to upgrade sooner, further up the line.
Thanks for the complement, and those photos you posted are great.

John supplied some info on a couple of lenses. Of the two he mentioned, I LOVE the 70-200 f4. Its a GREAT lens. I almost bought into the Canon system just to get that lens. If it were me, I'd choose that one of the two he recommended. If you need more reach, pick up a 1.4 teleconverter. That lens should handle it pretty well.

Good luck and enjoy.

Oh, and I can't help myself.




fldspringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2007, 12:09 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,241
Default

flippedgazelle wrote:
Quote:
No doubt, Sarah, that the XTi is an excellent camera, but when folks see a feature advertised, the assumption is that the so-called feature is an effective one, and in the case of Canon, Nikon, and others in the article I referenced above, the "dust reduction mode" is not. IMO, just from what I have gathered from you and all the other DSLR users on this forum, "dust reduction" is not even a truly critical feature.

I've seen, too many times, consumers get hooked on a particular feature or aspect of a product and then come away bitterly disappointed. As a partial aside, cameras (like my Fuji) that advertise "picture stabilization", "shake reduction", etc. that are merely ISO boosts or software manipulations are just as guilty.

After working for over a dozen years in the computer/technology center, I've seen a lot...

Chris
My camera is the Olympus E500 and it has an effective dust buster. I have yet to actually talk to the Oly DSLR shooter who has actually cleaned their sensor. Is it a reason to select a camera system? I'd say no. Its a minor feature. Nice to have but not as critical as many other factors.

Especially with action photography, stabilization is a very minor consideration. With higher shutter speed, it benefits are diminished, and with panning, it can cause more problems that it solves.
fldspringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2007, 10:57 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

Dust busting: It seems to vary from user to user, as to desireability and need for a device within the camera to accomplish this little job. As for me, it has worked well thus far on the Canon XTI. And yes, I also agree with flsdpringer, the Olympus, system does indeed work very well and it has been in use for about a decade.

Long Zoom Lenses: Without a doubt, one of the most effective long zoom lenses available for Canon EOS cameras is the 70-200mm F 4.0 lens. However, before committing to it, be sure that you actually handle it on your camera. Sizewise, and with beautiful effectiveness is the Zukio 40-150mm lens that fits the Olympus E series cameras. If size is critical to you, it is surely worth a good look.

Personalization: Any camera, but especially a DSLR camera is a very personal purchase. It has to fit your hands. It has to match your style of shooting. It has to be the correct size and the correct weight, with the balance where you desire the balance to be. It is so very important that you handle the camera. And even if possible, make the purchase on a "trial, with exchange priviledges" basis so that you get a DSLR camera that really matches you.

Thanks for the nice field work photos, flsspringer.

Sarah
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2007, 11:32 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
meanstreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,234
Default

flippedgazelle wrote:
Quote:
No doubt, Sarah, that the XTi is an excellent camera, but when folks see a feature advertised, the assumption is that the so-called feature is an effective one, and in the case of Canon, Nikon, and others in the article I referenced above, the "dust reduction mode" is not. IMO, just from what I have gathered from you and all the other DSLR users on this forum, "dust reduction" is not even a truly critical feature.

I've seen, too many times, consumers get hooked on a particular feature or aspect of a product and then come away bitterly disappointed. As a partial aside, cameras (like my Fuji) that advertise "picture stabilization", "shake reduction", etc. that are merely ISO boosts or software manipulations are just as guilty.

After working for over a dozen years in the computer/technology center, I've seen a lot...

Chris
I agree with you that too many consumers get hooked into a feature. I also agree thatFuji shouldn't advertise their high ISO boost as picture stabilzation, but truth be told I've done what the Fuji feature does. The differnce is I've done it manually by using higher ISOs and shutter speeds. Fuji simply does it through a twist of the dial. The only thing deceptive is that for a consumer reading the literature "picture stabilization" and "image stabilzation" sound like the same thing unless well defined. When I was looking at purchasing my F30, I almost fell for it but as I read further I discovered what it really was. Yes it's deceptive and I don't care for that type of tactic, but I will say this, their picture stabilization works and it is an easy method for an entry level photgrapher to get better results right away.

I also wouldn't reccomend anyone buying a camera over another just because it hasdust reduction capapability or other bell, whistle, gimmick, etc., etc.It does seem that according to that test that the Olympus does outperformthan the others, but I wouldn't hold to invest to much credance on that test performed in that article.

For starters in order to perform an accurate test, they needtest several units of each camera in order to eliminate the possibility that one or more models tested may have a defect in the dust cleaning system. Probably not likely the issue behind the poor results observedin the test, but in the interests of fairness and accuracy it is a standard that shouldbe followed when evaluating equipment. The same thing happens during lens reveiws in which we see a lens does poorly and yet when rated by someone else or used by the consumer we see differnt results.

Secondly and more importantly, the test was done under conditions that the cleaning mechanism in any of these cameras was not designed to handle.I want to know who here in this forum would expose their camerasto the extreme conditions as oultined in the test? Can wereally expectthat an integrated dust cleaning system is designed to handle the quantity of dustdescribedin the article regradless of the amount of cycles?Withthat much dust inside the camera all it didwas circulate the dust.

We all know the kind of dust it was meant to handle. It was meantto handle the kind of dust I had to remove twicewithin one year in one of my cameras and once in another. I'm talkingabout one or two particles that ended up on my sensorpossibly during a lens change and truly only noticable on lighter backgrounds and areas of an image with solid colors.The amount of dust they allowed into those cameras I wouldn't even want to have to clean manually. That doesn't mean I believe that the dust cleaning systems work well, it just means that the article doesn't convince me that it doesn't.The only thing the article leads me into believingis that the Olympus seems to work better than the rest.





meanstreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2007, 5:37 PM   #26
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 21
Default

JohnG

Thank you very much for your post, I am really chuffed at your comments! : - ) I'm grateful for the detail you've gone into and thank you also for the warning; I feel happy to go ahead.

Quote:
"I think you'll find the 400D to be an exceptional choice for your action shots - the 9 focus points and the servo tracking of the camera make it great for your purposes."
Great, this is my main aim. I had a preliminary look at the 400D today and the size and weight is fine. What I would like to get to grips with is the lens...

When I walk on the beach my priories are:

1) Action shots of dogs at varying distances
2) Birds at a distance / in flight
3) Distant scenery shots - landscape / boat etc.

2 and 3 also applies to the other places I would take this camera (apart from the beach!) as my needs otherwise are met by the Fuji F31 (always on me) or Canon G5. What I really want is to zoom in and capture motion.

Consequently I would opt for the two lens solution, my main priority being the longer reach. I feel I would want something longer than 200mm (I understand this is similar to 7x).

I am happy to look at more expensive options but not willing to go for anything too large/unwieldly.

You mention using a "a 100-400mm lens and that's even too short at times". Whould this be too large (physically) for my purposes or is there some other reason for not recommending one?

Lastly, thank you for pointing me in the right direction for the walk-around lens; I'll check them out once I've zeroed in on the main one.
St Iletto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2007, 6:04 PM   #27
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 21
Default

mtclimber

Thank you for your thoughtful posts and photos, I'm finding both very helpful!


Quote:
I think that the choice of the Canon XTi is a very logical one. It is a very easy camera to use. While at the same time it is very capable of great photos.
Super, I appreciate this feedback.

Quote:
You spoke of cropping, so that would lead me to believe that you would like some zoom as well. Here is a possible idea to tink about. Why not purchase the XTi body only and then an inexpensive all around lens such as the Sigma or Tamrom 18-200mm lens. That would effectively prove a lens range, expressed in 35mm ters of 27mm to 300mm with the Canon XTi."
My priority is the zoom - I've gone into further detail in the post above. Sorry, I'm getting a bit confused with how to tackle the various replies and I have had little experience of posting in Forums such as these, so please forgive any lapse of etiquette!


Quote:
The most important thing is to get started with the XTi so you can become really at ease and familiar with the camera, while at the sametime getting a better idea of what zoom range lens best targets the kind of photos that you like to take
So, if I understand correctly, you're saying that I should buy the camera and an all around lens (this would be what JohngG referred to as a walk-around lens?) and get some hands on experience before I tackle the zoom lens. I can see the logic in this and will give the issue some serious thought. I'd been waiting for the zoom for various months and am really impatient to go for it, but I'm a logical person... I'll sleep on it!

Thanks again for your continuing assistance! : - )

Warm regards,

St Iletto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2007, 7:01 PM   #28
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 21
Default


flippedgazelle

Quote:
but if the "dust removal system" is a key factor in your choice of the camera, you may need to re-examine that.
This isn't the key choice at all; it just seemed jolly nice to have as it is something that (from my novice standpoint) concerned me.

I'm grateful for your pointing this out and understand your reasons for doing so.


meanstreak

Thank you for your input but this isn't the deciding factor for me, it just seemed like a really great bonus. I understand now that this is not necessarily the case but do not really want to major on it. Other factors I've mentioned are far more critical to me in deciding on which camera to go for.



fldspringer
I would like to reply to your posts once I have been able to see the the 70-200 f4 lens (which I wasn't able to dop today) or at least read up on it to get an idea of weight/size - and I shall check out what a teleconverter looks like too!

Wow @ the actionphotos - thanks for including them!




mtclimber

I'm working through your posts...

Quote:
I have a lot of miles on my Canon XTi and I still have not had to do a single cleaning. IMO it is a very impressive camera.
That's extremely useful to hear, thanks! I am curious, why did you not suggest the XTi for me in your first post? You mentioned the following:

Quote:
The photo capabilities you are looking for is really a jobthat a camera such as the Nikon D-40 or D-40X equipped with a Nikon 70-300mm can do. That would be about a $1,100 investment.
...
Quote:
Long Zoom Lenses: Without a doubt, one of the most effective long zoom lenses available for Canon EOS cameras is the 70-200mm F 4.0 lens. However, before committing to it, be sure that you actually handle it on your camera.
I see... this is very useful. I will get back to you once I have learned some more so I can put your comment in perspective. Thanks!

Quote:
Sizewise, and with beautiful effectiveness is the Zukio 40-150mm lens that fits the Olympus E series cameras. If size is critical to you, it is surely worth a good look.
I'll do just that - thank you! Again, this is a useful avenue for me to explore.

Quote:
Any camera, but especially a DSLR camera is a very personal purchase. It has to fit your hands. It has to match your style of shooting. It has to be the correct size and the correct weight, with the balance where you desire the balance to be.
My aim is to return to the shops next week and try the camera (s) with the lens, once I have narrowed this down. When I was at the shop today the assistant was immediately recommending the D-40x and different lenses for different reasons (it was getting more confusing as opposed to illuminating) so to be honest, I didn't want to go any further before regrouping!

Quote:
And even if possible, make the purchase on a "trial, with exchange priviledges" basis
Understood, my options with this are somewhat limited but I shall exclude some purchase venues on this basis.




St Iletto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2007, 8:41 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,241
Default

St Iletto wrote:
Quote:


fldspringer
I would like to reply to your posts once I have been able to see the the 70-200 f4 lens (which I wasn't able to dop today) or at least read up on it to get an idea of weight/size - and I shall check out what a teleconverter looks like too!

Wow @ the actionphotos - thanks for including them!


The photos are from my Olympus E500. The first two I posted were from the 40-150 f3.5-4.5 kit lens. I consider this a very decent lens (good to very good). The second photos were from the same camera with the Olympus Zuiko 50-200 f2.8-3.5 which I consider a very good to excellent lens.

The Canon 70-200 f4 is near flawless as far as the optics are concerned. It is better than my Zuiko 50-200, but not quite as bright. It doesn't vignette, no CA, is highly corrected for distortions and I swear to would resolve a 20 mp sensor. Its a fantastic lens. How Canon can produce it at the price it does is astounding. Not all Canon lenses perform to this level. A few L primes may come close. The f2.8 70-200 isn't as good in nearly every measure (except brightness). If you get the xti, get this lens somewhere along the line!

The 70-300 John mentioned is no slouch. Its a nice lens too. If it were me, I'd put it on the back burner. I'd get the 70-200 first. I ALMOST bought the XTi just because of that lens. Its range was perfect for my dog sports, and what a lens. In the end, the XTi was too small for my comfort and the price of the 30D and this lens was a budget buster. I went with the E500 and have not regretted it.

BUT, I love that 70-200 f4.
fldspringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 9, 2007, 11:16 AM   #30
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,529
Default

St Iletto wrote:
Quote:
You mention using a "a 100-400mm lens and that's even too short at times". Whould this be too large (physically) for my purposes or is there some other reason for not recommending one?
It's a close call as to it's size. Size/weight is a relative thing. I think working with it and two dogs might be a bit cumbersome. Plus the 100mm is a bit long for when your dogs are close. If you were strictly going to do wildlife I wouldn't hesitate to suggest it. But for your purposes I think the other 2 lenses are a better fit. This is the nature of photography - there is almost never a PERFECT lens for the job.
JohnG is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 4:26 AM.