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Old Jun 20, 2007, 4:16 PM   #11
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What type of venues (local clubs with virtually no stage lighting, etc.) and can you get close to the stage?

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Old Jun 20, 2007, 7:12 PM   #12
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I can always get close to the act yes and it will be local venues and large academy style ones etc
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Old Jun 20, 2007, 7:20 PM   #13
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I know it is only 6 mega pixels but do you think this could possibly outweigh a 400D : http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/5392...ns-50-200.html
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Old Jun 20, 2007, 7:33 PM   #14
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liamthomson wrote:
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I know it is only 6 mega pixels but do you think this could possibly outweigh a 400D : http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/5392...ns-50-200.html
The Pentax K100d is certainly capable but not with those lenses. You'll need prime lenses for what you're doing:

I might suggest 28mm 1.8, 50mm 1.8, 85mm (or 100mm) 1.8 style lenses.

Or quite possible 50mm & 85mm 1.4




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Old Jun 20, 2007, 8:04 PM   #15
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Think i have found a winner http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/3546...html?itag=6615
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Old Jun 20, 2007, 8:17 PM   #16
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liam,

You're missing the point - go back and read John's reply regarding lenses...he gave you good advice...that lens probably won't be fast enough for your needs.

the Hun

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Old Jun 20, 2007, 8:40 PM   #17
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Let's simplify this

All lenses have a maximum aperture (lens opening)

The size of his maximum aperture is represented by a number. The smaller the number the bigger the aperture the more light it lets though.

Most zooms have a max. aperture of 3.5 or 4.5 or even higher

You will need a max. aperture somewhere between 1.2 and 2.8 the lower the better.

You will have to buy the camera body and lens separately You won't find what you need in a kit. And you will have to use prime lenses (non-zooms)
They do make fast zooms but they are very expencive. not to mention big and heavy.


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Old Jun 21, 2007, 3:28 AM   #18
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As already mentioned by others, you'll probably need primes (fixed focal length, non-zoom) lenses unless you're in a venue with very good stage lighting with relatively still performers. Then, use your feet for zoom.

Even a zoom that can maintain f/2.8 throughout the zoom range (and a kit lens would not fall into that category) would not be bright enough for a high percentage of keepers in some indoor conditions. If you wanted to try a zoom in better lighting, you'll want one that has f/2.8 available throughout the zoom range. I'd probably look at using something like a Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 for better conditions.

But, even f/2.8 is not going to work in many indoor conditions (you'd have too much motion blur unless you can catch the performers when they're still)

You can get brighter lenses with primes. Note that f/2 is twice as bright as f/2.8. f/1.4 is four times as bright as f/2.8 (which is the brightest you're going to find in a zoom from major manufacturers, with the exception of a couple of expensive Zuiko lenses like the Olympus Zuiko 35-100mm f/2, which sells for around $2,500).

With your budget, you're probably going to need to stick with something like a 50mm f/1.8 to begin with. If budget permits stretching it, I'd probably look at a f/1.4 instead (that way, you'd have it if you really needed to use it).

Most of the major camera manufacturers make 50mm lenses with f/1.8 or brighter (f/1.4, f/1.2) available apertures

In some conditions, you may want something wider (you may want a group shot and can't back up enough before you're into the crowd). Or, you may want longer primes for head and shoulders type shots where you're focusing more on capturing a single performer. But, a 50mm would probaby make a good lens to start out with until you get a better feel for your needs.

Note that in some lighting, you're not going to get a high percentage of keepers without unacceptable motion blur or noise, no matter what you use. With better stage lighting, you may be fine with a brighter zoom. But, I'd get the brightest prime lenses I could afford to start out with, and add more as budget permits to better meet your focal range needs.

Lenses like JohnG mentioned are the ones you're going to want to look at. If you can stretch your budget considerably, I'd probably look at 3 primes (something around 28 to 35mm, something around 50mm, something around 85 or 100mm). You'll want f/2 or brighter (smaller f/stop numbers). In a wider prime, you may want to look at the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC. It's a relatively low cost lens for it's focal length and brightness (price the camera manufacturer's 28 or 35mm f/1.4 lenses and you'll get the idea). But, it only works with cameras using an APS-C size sensor (so if you upgraded to a body using a larger sensor later, it wouldn't work on it)

Note that Depth of Field will be shallow at wider apertures (smaller f/stop numbers) needed to get your shutter speeds fast enough to reduce blur. So, accurate focus will be critical. Rapidly changing lighting plays havoc with a camera's metering, too. So, you'll also find that manual exposure will be a better way to go in some lighting.

IOW, it's going to take a lot of practice to get those "sharp, exciting images with no blur and no graininess in these conditions without using a flash of any sort" as you put it. You can expect grain/noise as ISO speeds are increased, and you can expect some motion blur in conditions with poor stage lighting. But, at smaller print and viewing sizes, it may not be that noticeable, and you can use software based noise reduction tools later if needed to help minimize it's appearance.

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Old Jun 21, 2007, 6:54 AM   #19
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Thanks Jim, so that Nikon D80 as far as a camera choice goes, would be a good one? Lenses aside...as i still need to get somehting to attach all these fast lenses to...?
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Old Jun 21, 2007, 10:17 AM   #20
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I'm no expert at this as you can tell. Only tried it once. But this will give you an idea of the problem stage lighting can be. This was taken on ISO 800 film with a 28mm 2.8 lens.
For digital a 18mm lens would give the same angle of view.
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