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Old Jul 31, 2007, 1:59 AM   #11
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ac.smith wrote:
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Not meant to bash any USER or BRAND...Just my experiences and the census of most people I talk to who have alot of knowledge of cameras.
I findthe abovea position espoused by those trying to justify their own decisions. The combined experience of those who have responded to the questions here exceed 120 years or specifically I know that three of us exceed 40 years each.
I can respect that and am not claiming to be an expert in any right. However, I just don't see the reasons as to why any1 would buy any Kodak that Kodak has out on the market currently. Other than old people, or those who need the SIMPLIEST of cameras. Those are the only 1's with a FREE-PASS in my book. Don't you think there is a good reason why a camera like the Z712 is $250 and cameras in that same class are usually twice the price. (Sony H9 - 480, Canon S5IS - 500)....You don't think Kodak was able to make a better camera than Canon/Sony etc but was able to put it on the market at half the price do you? Holding a Kodak doesn't even feel like your holding a camera, most of the cameras feel like plastic.

My experience may not be as great or as educated as many of you but once again I am open to enlightment. Having recently worked for a major electronics store and selling cameras to customers for 2 years. I never once had a professional or even semi-professional photographer come in and ask for a Kodak. And I would've been laughed at if I had recommended a Kodak. Even most customers who weren't looking for a professional quality camera would usually request for me to recommend any camera except Kodak. The only customers who ever purchased a Kodak were 1st time digital camera users or cheap customers looking for a CHEAP camera. Not once did any1 come into the store and say "I've been doing my research, and I wanna go ahead and buy THAT KODAK CAMERA!".........It just never happened. I mean why is it that Kodak has such a bad rep? Somebody please tell me I'm wrong
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 3:37 AM   #12
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DIGuy wrote:
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Somebody please tell me I'm wrong
Try this review for a start, please.....

http://www.wrexham-cameras.com/WHATS...EST-DIGI-5.htm

It's written by the professional photographer & retailer (another 'Steve') who tested & reported accurately on the Z712 and the other 5 digicams I've bought.

I discussed each purchase extensively with him and his equally expertbrother, an enthusiast and dealer in classic cameras. They rigorously test (abroad, in the field) all the cameras they sell, and are very goodat kitting customers out in a way that suits the customer's requirements AND his or her bank balance. In theshop there is a huge folder containing big enlargements shot with all their current recommended cameras, from throwaway to top-flight dSLR.

One of the things they stress is that brand is not very relevant these days, in that the big names produce turkeys sometimes, which Wrexcam review but won't sell. They have liked Kodak cameras occasionally in the last few years. I quote Steve of Wrexham Cameras...

"Which are the best makes of camera to buy?....a few years ago this was an easy question to answer...this has now changed....(list of big names)...None of these makes can boast a complete range of good cameras & the only way to find out if a camera is good or bad is to test the camera (the specs may be good but the quality may not be).....That's what I do....I test every camera I can get my hands on so I can tell you if it's good or bad!"

They had to overcome my prejudices to sell me my two excellent Casio cameras.These are still in use and kept ready for instant action when I need them, one for its features (external flash & wide bracketing), and one for its size (breast pocket).

Actually, I have many Casio products still in use after many years, but they're still seen as down market. One of the Casios feels a bit plasticky, and the other doesn't. All my cameras have had full manual control, so calling any of them 'point & shoot' is seriously misleading.

I'll feel on safer ground after I've had my Z712 for a year. At present, after 2 months, it feels to me like the best camera I've owned in the last 48 years (I'm 58 ).I've upgraded each time I could afford the next technical advance each time. It's the first time I've been confident of achieving results close to those of my Olympus SLR film kit. The Z712 provides similar quality, handling, much more flexibly, in a small machine (not quite pocketable) that's unbelievable value for money. Even if I end up having bought two different battery & charger systems for the Z712, it'll be the cheapest digicam I've purchased.

I'm well in touch with the dSLR scene because I have a friend, a professional photographer where I worked as a researcher. He has tens of thousands of pounds' worth of top-flight Nikon kit (even GPS), frequently upgraded, and we inspect each others' photographic kit regularly.
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 6:09 AM   #13
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nologrocomprender wrote:
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...The Z712 also uses Li-Ion battery`s (KLIC-8000)
the problem is that i`ll have to spend around 60 bugs more to buy 1 battery and it`s respective charger.

About what you said about Kodak, with my poor experience with digital cams, i think that kodak is not a bad brand. but what i see is that they just make low-end and some mid-end cams, not many SLR`s...
You can get a pack of 2 rechargeable third-party replacements for KLIC-8000 Li-ion and a charger for half the price from ebay.

I guess Kodak can manage this low prices because:
a) They aren't trying to ripoff their costumers
b) They don't have to pay royalties to themselves :lol: (they own most patents that define a Digicam)
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 11:48 AM   #14
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DIGuy wrote:
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I can respect that and am not claiming to be an expert in any right. However, I just don't see the reasons as to why any1 would buy any Kodak that Kodak has out on the market currently. Other than old people, or those who need the SIMPLIEST of cameras. Those are the only 1's with a FREE-PASS in my book. Don't you think there is a good reason why a camera like the Z712 is $250 and cameras in that same class are usually twice the price. (Sony H9 - 480, Canon S5IS - 500)....You don't think Kodak was able to make a better camera than Canon/Sony etc but was able to put it on the market at half the price do you? Holding a Kodak doesn't even feel like your holding a camera, most of the cameras feel like plastic.

My experience may not be as great or as educated as many of you but once again I am open to enlightment. Having recently worked for a major electronics store and selling cameras to customers for 2 years. I never once had a professional or even semi-professional photographer come in and ask for a Kodak. And I would've been laughed at if I had recommended a Kodak. Even most customers who weren't looking for a professional quality camera would usually request for me to recommend any camera except Kodak. The only customers who ever purchased a Kodak were 1st time digital camera users or cheap customers looking for a CHEAP camera. Not once did any1 come into the store and say "I've been doing my research, and I wanna go ahead and buy THAT KODAK CAMERA!".........It just never happened. I mean why is it that Kodak has such a bad rep? Somebody please tell me I'm wrong
There's one good reason to buy either a Z612 or a Z712 over a Sony H7/H9 - better IQ. The S5 is another story as Canon used a very conservative approach to upgrading the S3 as did Kodak upgrading the Z612 to the Z712. Neither degraded a very good product in the process of doing an upgrade. I have no problem with the S3/S5 nor the Sony H2/H5 I just can get equal performance (including IQ) in the areas that matter for me for less.

I seriously doubt that you had many pro or semi-pros shopping for a superzoom in a major electronics store. I also doubt that you had many people saying they had done their research - they hadn't, that's why they where asking you questions.

In total your information is based on hearsay and marketing hype. In your former position this is both understandable and unavoidable. It did enable you to connect a customer to a product that very likely was quite satisfactory and which, of course, was what was needed.


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Old Jul 31, 2007, 9:24 PM   #15
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Alan T wrote:
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I was thinking in buying the Kodak Z712...........(baterry life)............not good because they don`t have good ISO sensitivity.......It also accepts AA batterys isn`t it ? how long is the battery life with rechargables AA baterrys ?
Ifoundbattery life so shortas to be unusable with AA rechargeable Ni-MH, and Kodak also say they aren't suitable.
I've posted more about the Z712 with AA batteries in the 'Batteries & power supplies' forum at http://forums.steves-digicams.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=572060&forum_id=51&page= 2
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Old Aug 2, 2007, 3:39 AM   #16
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Good posts...Can't say that I'm completely sold on the Z712 or even sold on any camera Kodak currently offers. However, it does make me curious and anxious to test out the Z712 more thorough than I have. I'm not stubborn in my ways so I don't want any1 to thinkI was being rude or self-consumed by my own opinion. I know brand doesn't matter now-a-days but I guess I've just been dissapointed by some of the models my store had carried. It may also have been customer/other employees negative feedback on Kodak cameras in general that have influenced my thinking but who knows for sure. I was a big fan of the P850 but that was 1 of the only Kodaks in the last 2 years I can say that about. It also doesn't help when the majority of the Kodak cameras my store carried were AA's...Most customers and myself as well do not prefer AA's. Just preference or experience. And to counter, yes I have had many local professional/semi-professional come to the store I work and purchase cameras, lenses etc...Thx for the info as always
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Old Aug 2, 2007, 6:42 PM   #17
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DIGuy wrote:
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Good posts...Can't say that I'm completely sold on the Z712 or even sold on any camera Kodak currently offers. However, it does make me curious and anxious to test out the Z712 more thorough than I have. I'm not stubborn in my ways so I don't want any1 to thinkI was being rude or self-consumed by my own opinion. I know brand doesn't matter now-a-days but I guess I've just been dissapointed by some of the models my store had carried. It may also have been customer/other employees negative feedback on Kodak cameras in general that have influenced my thinking but who knows for sure. I was a big fan of the P850 but that was 1 of the only Kodaks in the last 2 years I can say that about. It also doesn't help when the majority of the Kodak cameras my store carried were AA's...Most customers and myself as well do not prefer AA's. Just preference or experience. And to counter, yes I have had many local professional/semi-professional come to the store I work and purchase cameras, lenses etc...Thx for the info as always
Hey, if you were recommending Canon/Sony/Panasonic you weren't really doing the customer a disservice as long as you were matching the features the customer wanted/needed to a product because all of those manufacturer's do generally produce good products. On the other hand Kodak can generally match features and perfomance at a lower price, especially in the superzoom arena (IMO). My own personal experience is that they also equal the others in reliability.

One can also read in this and other forums and find those saying that they had just purchased and (returned/sold/given to brother) a (pick any major brand) model (a highly regarded model) because it was (junk/major disappointment/wouldn't take the pictures needed) and they want recommendations for a replacement.It's fairly hard to evaluate user complaints because they may have expectations that that are completely out of touch with reality (or their own skill levels.)
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Old Aug 2, 2007, 10:53 PM   #18
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Most probably the best support that can be put forward that can be viewed and analyzed is an actual photo from the Kodak Z-712 camera.

This photo was taken usingmy Z-712's built-in flash at a distance of 35 feet. I compares very favorably with the Canon S-2, S-3, S-5, and the Panasonic FZ 7, FZ-8.

Sometimes seeing an actual photo is much more tangible. I hope this helps.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 3, 2007, 3:55 AM   #19
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mtclimber wrote:
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Most probably the best support that can be put forward that can be viewed and analyzed is an actual photo from the Kodak Z-712 camera.
I realise I've just posted some high ISO images and their EXIF data in the Kodak forum. I'd forgotten them until just now! I wasn't thinking about ISO when I posted, but was when I took them.

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=18

Thanks for the prompt (again!), Sarah.
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Old Aug 3, 2007, 3:59 PM   #20
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There's alot of noise in the pic above so that wouldn't really be the best pic to persuade me of the quality of the Z712....However, I will have time to mess with the camera tonight so I guess I'll make a case for it 1 way or another.
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