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Old Aug 14, 2007, 10:07 PM   #61
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Hi Sarah,

I really don't need till tomorrow. I am looking at the original post that expense is an issue. An upgrade (spending more) is something possible if it yields more for the long run. With that in mind:

Choice #1: Pentax w/ kit and possibly their 50-200. Very hard to beat for the buck!

Choice #2 (If its available for sub $600 as the OP stated) The E510 Olympus. If it has a kit lens or two. The 40-150 f3.5-4.5 can be bought for $150 if it only has the short lens.

Choice #3: Nikon D40 kit if money is tight.

Choice #4: Nikon D40x if you can swing the extra money. They really did accomplish an excellent upgrade in the 6-10mp jump.

Choice #5: the Canon XTi (body only) and find a different lens solution.



If the OP is going to do daylight outdoor photography only, the E500 two lens kit will climb quite a ways up the list. Perhaps between two and three. If the OP is going to be using it for existing light photography in dim conditions, there is much better choices.


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Old Aug 15, 2007, 1:17 AM   #62
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i have never encountered such an incredible online community in my life. you guys (and gal) have been so generous with your comments and opinions. i'm going to be able to look back in a few years and think fondly about all of you (especially you sarah!) and hopefully be able to help another newbie out!

i guess the debate will continue and i will continue to soak up all your opinions. i plan to go to samy's tomorrow to see both models. if for some reason the nikon just hands down feels better than the canon then i'll probably buy right then and there. if it doesn't and i decide to go with the xti, then that's when i'll have a dillema. as i had stated previously, the canon kit is available online for just a little over $700 ($729 at buydig, $716 at b&H, $705 at butterfly photo, $730 at adorama). the same kit is around $770 at either samy's or belair. i called both samys and belair to see if they would price match. they said the prices i found at buydig and b&h were both below their costs! the guy at belair suggested i call and talk to the manager tomorrow as he thought he might be able to help me out. guess we'll see.

i'll report back tomorrow. in the meantime, keep the opinions coming!
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 1:23 AM   #63
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oops, forgot to ask one more question. one of the cons i keep reading about the nikon is the lack of a depth of field preview. again i apologize for sounding like a complete newb but one of the reasons i'm buying a dslr is to get the incredible shots where a subject is in focus and everything in the foreground and background is kind of blurry. does this con of the nikon make it harder to accomplish that?
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 2:09 AM   #64
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just because i feel like the 20d is still a possibility for me what are your opinions on the following:

here's the refurbished kit from adorama:
http://www.adorama.com/ICA20DKR.html

then the body only:
http://www.adorama.com/ICA20DR.html

then here's an ebay auction that includes a 1-year warranty (body only):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:IT&ih=006


now if i go with a body only i'll obviously have to buy a lens which, with the price of the 20d body alone, doesn't leave me with a lot more to spend. plus, i'm still just learning about dslr's in general let alone the specifics about lenses. what is a good inexpensive lens i could start off with?
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 2:50 AM   #65
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If you are a Costco member, they have the Rebel XTi kit in warehouse for ~770 if I recall correctly. Yeah, you have to pay sales tax but their return policy is exceptional if you have an issue, and you get to go home and play immediately :|

I wish I could justify the expense right now- but alas I need a new car.



Good luck
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 6:47 AM   #66
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alleyooptroop wrote:
Quote:
oops, forgot to ask one more question. one of the cons i keep reading about the nikon is the lack of a depth of field preview. again i apologize for sounding like a complete newb but one of the reasons i'm buying a dslr is to get the incredible shots where a subject is in focus and everything in the foreground and background is kind of blurry. does this con of the nikon make it harder to accomplish that?
Lenses have depth of view charts and their are also calculators available. Its not my idea of fun. If you had a static picture you really wanted to get right, it will work. Trying to determine whats in sharp focus by peering into a small viewfinder may be less accurate.

I shoot a little to much by the seat of my pants, but you will get a feel for the behavior of a lens after time. My camera has the feature, but I don't use it that much. If it critical, I use a calculator or I bracket (take one shot at what I think is right and one opened up more and one stopped down more.

It may be important to you. There are features the D40 and D40x don't have that may be important to you. Your doing a great job getting feedback before your purchase.

Greg
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 12:13 PM   #67
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alleyooptroop-

I think that Greg's post gave us a good look at priorities. It is time for us to be setting some logical order to these cameras under consideration. Here is how Greg placed the cameras:

"Choice #1: Pentax w/ kit and possibly their 50-200. Very hard to beat for the buck!

Choice #2 (If its available for sub $600 as the OP stated) The E510 Olympus. If it has a kit lens or two. The 40-150 f3.5-4.5 can be bought for $150 if it only has the short lens.

Choice #3: Nikon D40 kit if money is tight.

Choice #4: Nikon D40x if you can swing the extra money. They really did accomplish an excellent upgrade in the 6-10mp jump.

Choice #5: the Canon XTi (body only) and find a different lens solution."

Naturally, to that list we have to add in the Canon 20D from Cameta.

Choice #6 the Canon 20D (body only) and find a different lens solution.

Since DOF was a priority in your first post, we should also deal with you question about the depth of field preview:

I happen to agree with Greg, this is not a feature, at least for me, that I use very much. As Greg mentioned once you begin working with a lens you soon get to know its characteristics. So, to me a depth of field preview is not a muct have feature.

We have discussed many DSLR cameras in this thread. Their prices vary quite a bit. SoI think it is time, to once again discussthe budget/price equation.

Obviously, the Pentax K-100 two lens kit offers the greatest value for the money, so it is properly the #1 Choice, and the lenses are very good lenses. Total cost before rebates $(US)687 to $(US) 700. After rebate $(US) 537 to $(US) 550.


In my opinion, the #2 Choice, based on striving for a low price, would be the Nikon D-40 with the kit lens and the Nikkor 55-200mmVR lens. Once again the lenses are very good lenses. Total Cost $(US) 774 to $(US) 780.

Beyond those two choices above, we move into a higher mp count cameras:

In my opinion, the #3 Choice, based on striving for a low price, would be the Olympus E-510 with the kit lens and the Zukio 40-150mm lens. Total Cost: $(US) 930to $(US) 950.

In my opinion, the #4 Choice, based on striving for a low price, would be the Canon XTi body witheither theSigma 18-200mmOS lens or the Tamron 18-250mm lens. Total Cost around $(US) $1,150 to $(US) 1,200.

In my opinion, the #5 Choice, based on striving fora low price, would be the Canon 20D equipped with either the Sigma 18-200mmOS lens or the Tamron 18-250mm lens. Total Cost $(US) 1,288 to 1,325.

So that means, that in constructing comparable kits, the prices range from $(US) 537 to $(US) 1,325! That is a very wide spread!

Referring back to the original post, is the #1 Choice able to accomplish the priorities laid down by alleyooptroop?

I believe that the Pentax K-100 kit with the Pentax 50-200mm lens can do the job at a bargain price of $(US) 537 to $(US) 550. Beyond that price level you are either adding big name cameras, or a more sophisticated features list.

For now, all we can do is to await the results of alleyooptroop's physical handling testing. However, we now have a better view of price priorities.

Sarah Joyce


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Old Aug 15, 2007, 1:44 PM   #68
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originally, i just wanted to "get in the game" so to speak. so the pentax was really the only one i was looking at. but the more and more i read about different features and resolution and kit lens etc., has motivated me to look higher up in the spectrum of cameras.

i kind of see this experience to be similar to when i bought my first motorcycle. at first, i was looking at smaller displacement bikes. i did the same thing i'm doing now - posted on a message board for opinions. some were saying to buy something small first, then others said get the biggest i was comfortable with. well, i went with the latter and never regretted it.

so here i am now. i feel comfortable with the 2 choices i'm looking at although i think i'm leaning towards the canon because of your opinions. but now instead of the kit lens i'm going to try and find something better. i will look up the lenses sarah mentioned. hopefully they won't break the bank.
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 2:21 PM   #69
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On your DOF preview question - it partly depends on what you plan on taking. My own experience is that I use it often for macro subjects, where DOF is really critical (and then not always). I've never used it for anything else and probably wouldn't miss it too much. You can always review the pictures and get an idea for most things by scrolling in.

So what conclusion did you come to?
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 2:35 PM   #70
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going over to samy's camera at lunch. will report back.
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