Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > What Camera Should I Buy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Nov 30, 2007, 2:34 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 2,093
Default

richwolf wrote:
Quote:
I don't think the reviews I have read support your claim that 18 time zoom lenses are not as good as 12 time zoom lenses.
Read the detail comments in DPReview on the FZ18 and Fuji S8000fd. In both cases they note that the lenses shows softness at the very long end of their telephoto range. Their resolution table shows comparable resolution between the FZ8 and FZ18 but only when the FZ18 is at its optimal focal length. DPReview also noted increased fringing and CA as the lenses approach the end of their telephoto range although Panasonic does some correction of this with in-camera proccessing.

Sarah has also stated that she thinks the last 3x of the 15x Sony H7/H9 is not very good.

I don't have personal experience with the FZ18/SP560UZ/S8000fd/H7/9 but I'm not talking out of my hat either.
ac.smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 4:35 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 44
Default

ac.smith wrote:
Quote:
richwolf wrote:
Quote:
I don't think the reviews I have read support your claim that 18 time zoom lenses are not as good as 12 time zoom lenses.
Read the detail comments in DPReview on the FZ18 and Fuji S8000fd. In both cases they note that the lenses shows softness at the very long end of their telephoto range. Their resolution table shows comparable resolution between the FZ8 and FZ18 but only when the FZ18 is at its optimal focal length. DPReview also noted increased fringing and CA as the lenses approach the end of their telephoto range although Panasonic does some correction of this with in-camera proccessing.

Sarah has also stated that she thinks the last 3x of the 15x Sony H7/H9 is not very good.

I don't have personal experience with the FZ18/SP560UZ/S8000fd/H7/9 but I'm not talking out of my hat either.
After reading DPreview I am still of the conclusion that the optics are not the problems, but the sensors are. They rate the optics on both the FZ8 and FZ18 at an 8.0 on a scale of 10 to me which is pretty good.

Small sensors are the problem and also it seems cramming too many megapixels onto them. Of course to get a larger sensor you would need to make the glass much bigger and heavier from what I understand.

From the DPreview review of the FZ8

"In summary the FZ8 is a welcome upgrade to one of the best 'super zoom' cameras on the market, even if it doesn't address some of the fundamental issues we had with its predecessor (namely the inability of the sensor/processor to deliver results to match the lens). But it's a very well-priced, very well-designed, wonderfully versatile, fast and responsive photographic tool that offers SLR features - and an effective image stabilization system - in a very compact package."
richwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 4:47 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 44
Default

And looking at the Canon G9 which should be heads and shoulders above the super zooms as far as image quality, it really isn't. DPreview rates it about the same at the Panasonics for optics and image quality.

Again the problem seems to be sensor size. Until sensors get bigger then noise and photo quality particularly at higher ISOs is not going to get better.

From DPreview of the Canon G9

"It's the biggest irony of the compact digital camera market: since the cameras all use very similar sensors (often the exact same sensor) and many even share the same lens assembly, the price difference between the entry-level models and range-toppers such as the G9 simply isn't reflected in a commensurate difference in output quality. And it doesn't matter how much you are prepared to spend; you can't buy your way out of the 'compact camera problem' - a small, noisy sensor is a small noisy sensor no matter what kind of tank you build around it or how many 'professional' features you build into the body.

"IQ-wise the G9 is about as good as it gets in a compact camera (at low ISO - once you get to ISO 400 the gap between most decent cameras is very narrow), and physically it puts virtually everything else to shame. But inside, at the heart of the image capture system, sits the same (or an almost identical) sensor you'll find in a Casio, Canon or Sony point and shoot camera, in all it's 12 megapixel glory. When I mentioned giving Canon credit for listening to feedback on the G7 (and boy was there a lot of feedback) I don't remember anyone crying out for even more megapixels. Whatever drove Canon's top brass to look at the G7 and decide 'I know what it needs! More Pixels!' it certainly wasn't consumer demand.

And thus, like the G7 before it, the G9 is a wonderfully built and designed camera, but one that simply cannot (nor could ever) really deliver on its promises; it truly is a sheep in wolves' clothing. By all means buy one (I would - it makes 99% of other compacts look like toys, and it's not like you can get significantly better image quality anywhere else), but do so in the full knowledge that a lot of what you're paying is for the icing, not the cake.?"

Hey I'll take my FZ8 and it's greater zoom capabilites and lower price any day of the week. I don't see investing in another digital camera until the sensor issue is resolved.

Just my 2 cents worth.
richwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 4:55 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 39
Default

I've been following your thread... because I was thinking a big zoom would be nice for me. I'm definitely the last person to give advice... but wanted to share my experience today.

I live in a small town with no camera shops. I drove an hour to a real camera shop and got to talk with the owner/manager. When I told him the ones I wanted to see... Z18, Canon XTI, Sony H9... he said I was really comparing apples and oranges. I already felt that way. He didn't have the Sony in stock. He thought maybe the Nikon lower priced DSLR would best suited for me due to price.

We stepped to the door of the store and took a picture down the mall (focusing on a Santa sign)... using Nikon original lens, step up zoom lens (with VR)and then the Z18. Nikon first lens, photo was blurred (FYI I have bad camera shake), the VR zoom photo was nice, but the Z18 was just as clear andmuch closer. He pretty much was speechless. I said it looked like I needed to get the Z18. He said he didn't have much experience with that camera because it was new in... but he agreed that it would be a good one for me.

I know it's just 1 shot. But when I took the Z18 photo, we even commented on how I was moving the camera around... and it was the best of the three. ??? I know the sign is not a moving object... maybe the Nikon would have captured a personbetter. But it certainly is a bigger more expensive lens/camera and more aggravation too.

I'm not sold yet... but definitely leaning toward the Z18. I'll beinterested in followingthe rest of your story!



1000words is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 5:10 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 2,093
Default

richwolf wrote:
Quote:
Hey I'll take my FZ8 and it's greater zoom capabilites and lower price any day of the week. I don't see investing in another digital camera until the sensor issue is resolved.

Just my 2 cents worth.
The originator of this thread wanted comments on the relative merits of the FZ18 (not the FZ8 ) vs. the S5. Part of my point was the FZ8 (12x - 1/2.5 sensor) and the S5 (12x - 1/2.5) sensor would be much closer in IQ over their total performance range than the FZ18. Stated another way, 12x is fine, 15x - 18x is a bridge to far. I use a 12x myself.
ac.smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 5:24 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 44
Default

So what would be a better camera and why?
richwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 6:50 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 60
Default

Please keep going, I still have not made a decision. This thread is very interesting to me.

Thanks
rachunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 7:21 PM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 44
Default

From most of what I have read the Pansonic is the top 18 times zoom camera. If you want a hybrid camera with video then the Canon s5 appears to be the top choice. For top image quality I think you have to go with one of the Fujis with the larger sensor, but be aware not all Fuji's use the larger sensor and the ones that do lack Image stabalization.




richwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 7:34 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 601
Default

rachunter - what, in order, are the three most important things to you about the camera you will buy?
pcake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2007, 9:26 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 2,093
Default

richwolf wrote:
Quote:
So what would be a better camera and why?
FZ8 vs. S5? Different but equal in general picture taking situations. Tip of the hat to the S5 because of the hot shoe IF I WERE IN THE MARKET. I'm not because my current 12x superzoom is doing fine.
ac.smith is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 4:57 AM.