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Old Dec 1, 2007, 9:48 AM   #11
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Dolce wrote:
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I was also looking at the K10D, but it's more expensive. I don't want to spend more coz it's gonna be my first DSLR.

What about Sony A100? (Ohhh sorry, I have 3 choices already, but a bit info about the fourth one is OK too I guess)
The Pentax K10D is a fine camera, but it lacks some of the features in the K100D that make it easier for a first time dSLR user, so I'd say you might be better off with the K100D instead of the K10D. That is, if you were to consider a Pentax.

The Sony A100 is also a fine camera, and it, like the Pentaxes and the Olympus E-510, have sensor shift image stabilization. The XTi, D40X, E-510, K100D and A100 are more similiar than they are different. Making your way through all the smoke and mirrors to select the one that will serve you best is always a challenge.

To assimilate the A100 and the K100D into the comparison table I posted earlier, I've prepaired the following:

[line]

K100D Advantages:
  • Sensor shift image stabilization (in the camera body, so it applies to all lenses) [/*]
  • Better selection of lenses than A100 &E-510, but short on long lenses.
K100D Disadvantages:
[/*]
  • 6MP, not 10MP, like the others[/*]
  • Not many long lenses available [/*]
  • No Live View
[/*]
[line]

A100 Advantages:
  • Sensor shift image stabilization (in the camera body, so it applies to all lenses) [/*]
  • Better selection of lenses than the E-510 [/*]
  • Better selection of long lenses than the K100D
A100 Disadvantages:
[/*]
  • Good OEM lenses are very expensive [/*]
  • No Live View
[/*]
[line]

Hope this helps.
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Old Dec 1, 2007, 9:52 AM   #12
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NHL wrote:
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I would take exception to the E-510 having the smallest selection of lenses:
I never said they didn't have good lenses; I said they had a small selection of lenses.

If you can find what you need within that smaller selection, great. But the selection of lenses for the Olympus dSLRs is smaller than for any other dSLR.
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Old Dec 1, 2007, 6:02 PM   #13
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One factor that has not been mentioned yet is the fact that the Olympus E-510 two lens kit is one of the very best DSLR buys in the market today. And the Zuiko 14-42mm kit lens and the Zuiko 40-150mm lens are two of the very best consumer lenses available in the market.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Dec 1, 2007, 6:35 PM   #14
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I have both the K10 and the K100 cameras. The K100 is lighter, simpler, and has less noise. The K10 is a far more capable camera, with all sorts of ways to personalize the controls. There are far more controls on the camera body so you can quickly change metering, focus points, modes, etc. But that's also a disadvantage because it is easier to change a setting without realizing it and there's more to think about for casual shooting. It will have a longer learning curve so for a first dSLR I'd recommend the K100 if you are going with the Pentax line.
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Old Dec 1, 2007, 6:42 PM   #15
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mtclimber wrote:
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...And the Zuiko 14-42mm kit lens and the Zuiko 40-150mm lens are two of the very best consumer lenses available in the market.
Let's not get carried away. The 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 and the40-150mm f/4.0-5.6 are new, and replaced some mediocre lenses.

See (It seems that WowBB disapproves of the hyperlink for the PhotoZone survey results, so please bear with me. Go to http://www.photozone.de, click on the Reviews tab, scroll to the bottom of the page, click on 4/3 System (Olympus E) lenses, under "Topics:' click on Browse the Lens-Database, and click on the "Start Query" button.)

It seems the 14-42 is an improvement over the 14-45 it replaced, but the new 40-150 seems not to be as good as the older, brighter lens.

See http://www.photodo.com/products.html...ympus+4%2F3rds

I think it's premature to call them "the best" anything, whatever your definition of "consumer lens" might be.

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Old Dec 1, 2007, 8:39 PM   #16
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TCav-

If you will check-out www.slrgear.com you will find that they rate the new Olympus/Zuiko 40-150mm lens as better than the older 40-150mm lens.

I have had the new Olympus/Zuiko 40-150mm F 4.0 lens for less than a week, but thus far based on a limited number of images, the new 40-150mm lens is just as good or better than the old Olympus/Zuikio 40-150mm F 3.5 lens.

Likewise, I have also has excellent results with the Olympus/Zuiko 14-42mm kit lens. It is fast to focus, very sharp, and the zoom action is as smooth as velvet. As many posters on this forum know, I am not without a good deal of experience and have been a digital camera instructor for the last 11 years.

You personally have mentioned on several ocassions that you feel that kit lenses , in general, are not bright enough for low light shooting. So here is a real "acid test" that I set up for you. This photo was taken hand held with my Olympus E-410, using the 14-42 kit lens at F 3.5 at a shutter speed of 1/13th at ISO 1600. It looks very nice indeed to me.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Dec 1, 2007, 9:09 PM   #17
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mtclimber wrote:
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This photo was taken hand held with my Olympus E-410, using the 14-42 kit lens at F 3.5 at a shutter speed of 1/13th at ISO 1600. It looks very nice indeed to me.

Sarah Joyce
Sarah, I would say that photo has an unacceptable amount of noise in it. Which is a combination of poor high ISO performance AND a narrow aperture. A wider aperture would allow you to use a lower ISO and thus get a better results. So I guess I have to side with TCAV on this one.
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Old Dec 1, 2007, 9:48 PM   #18
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JohnG-

I agree with you. There is measureable noise in the photo. However, the attempt was to push the dimmer kit lens to the maximum for this photo sample. Had I used the Sigma 30mm F1.4 lens at ISO 800 or even ISO 400, much better results could have been obtained.

However, for some folks who desire to make the very most of a rather limited budget, it provides an option. There is also another difference. According to www.letsgodigital.com the E-410 and the E-510 do not share the same imager. They are different with the E-410 using a Kodak cmos imager, and the E-510 using a Panasonic branded cmos imager.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Dec 2, 2007, 12:07 AM   #19
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mtclimber wrote:
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If you will check-out http://www.slrgear.com you will find that they rate the new Olympus/Zuiko 40-150mm lens as better than the older 40-150mm lens.
I'm pleased to see information that permits an objective comparison between the two lenses, and I'm pleased to see that the new 40-150 is an improvement over the old one.

But let's keep this simple for now and concentrate on the 14-42.

mtclimber wrote:
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... And the Zuiko 14-42mm kit lens and the Zuiko 40-150mm lens are two of the very best consumer lenses available in the market.
That's a pretty bold statement. It's also a pretty nebulous statement.

To follow up on that, I went looking for reviews of kit lenses. "Consumer lenses" could be defined broadly or narrowly, but to start, I just looked at kit lenses. Photodo has user reviews of Pentax, Sony, Minolta, and Olympus kit lenses. The Olympus looks excellent, but only has one User Review and two User Ratings. The Pentax, which seems to be very good,has 6 User Reviews and 17 User Ratings. The Sony and Minolta, with a total of 4 User Reviews and 11 User Ratings,don't rate as high, but since the results for the two brands are similiar and the lenses are identical, that is a good indication of the consistancy and reliabilityof the results.

I tried SLRGear and PhotoZone, but couldn't find similiar data for the different kit lenses that would permit a comparison.

I tried Popular Photography and found Subjective Quality Factor figures for the Canon, Olympus and Sony kit lenses. Even though it is, by definition, subjective, it's probably a very reliable way to draw objective conclusions.

Canon 18-55:


Olympus 14-42:



Sony 18-70:

From these, we might be able to conclude that the Olympus 14-42 is optically somewhat better that the Canon and Sony.

If, by "consumer lenses", you mean kit lenses, then I would agree that the Olympus 14-42 is one of the very best consumer lenses.

Is that what you mean?
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Old Dec 2, 2007, 6:38 AM   #20
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JohnG wrote:
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mtclimber wrote:
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This photo was taken hand held with my Olympus E-410, using the 14-42 kit lens at F 3.5 at a shutter speed of 1/13th at ISO 1600. It looks very nice indeed to me.

Sarah Joyce
Sarah, I would say that photo has an unacceptable amount of noise in it. Which is a combination of poor high ISO performance AND a narrow aperture. A wider aperture would allow you to use a lower ISO and thus get a better results. So I guess I have to side with TCAV on this one.
John,

I don't know how Sarah downsamples her images for posting on this forum, but they always look terrible to me.

I am fairly sure she has a software problem because even low ISO photos look hugely oversharpened and full of artifacts. And because she posts shots from so many cameras it can't be the camera that is the problem.

I am pretty sure it's not my computer or monitor because this occurs across multiple browsers and operating systems.

Sarah, you really need to do something about the software you use to resize your pictures for posting because I am afraid I have never seen a single picture that you have posted that I would take as a recommendation for the camera it was taken on.

You are so generous in sharing your wealth of knowledge from all the cameras you use, but the pictures as they show up on Steves without exception have been horribly processed. What software are you using?
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