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Old Feb 20, 2008, 3:45 PM   #11
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hi ok, ive done some reading nd some learning, and now i really made up my mind to get 450D (when it's out and when the review says is good) or if it doesn't then i'll be getting the 400D or D40x instead.

Questions again guys:

1. Yes i used a lot of canon powershot cameras before that;s why im "leaning" more to canon than Nikon cause i'm already quite familiar with the canon's user interface. Is this a wise choice ?

2. As I said before, currently i'm using G7 which have f/2.8-4.8 6X optical zoom lens (35-210mm, 35mm equivalent). so let's says if i do get the 450D which lense should i buy that can perform about the same as the G7 lense that are affordable yet good quality?

3. So now i understand that to achieve "bokeh" i must use larger aperture lense prefferably prime lense, is thta right ? and can you reccomend any lens wide enough to do that ? for let's says wedding shots and such ?

4. my friend just bought the Nikon D40x and he trade the kit lense to the one that are included as D80 kit lense AF-S DX 18-135mm. Being newbie in this thing, but i've learn a bit and i think that lense spec is quite good than the canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM, question is that any canon lense that provide almost same spec and almost same price?

5. What i have in mind is :

-Canon 450D Body Only

-EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM or
any good "walk around" all around everyday lense to recoomend?

-1 more prime lense that are wide enough and bright enough for me to take wedding shots and suchs ?

will all that combination give me better picture over my canon G7 ?

i mainly shots :
candids,
potrait,
indoor night wedding like photo,
animals
scenery (mostly sunsets and night landscape)

can anybody give better idea for the lenses, i want to try to keep the lense not more thatn 2 units cause it'll be trouble some for me to bring a lot of lense in my bag.

thank you very much, you guys really helps me in this.

thank you once again.

one more thing , does anybody knows wheter the 450D have AF light or not ?
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 4:48 PM   #12
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10-Dee-Q wrote:
Quote:
Questions again guys:

1. Yes i used a lot of canon powershot cameras before that;s why im "leaning" more to canon than Nikon cause i'm already quite familiar with the canon's user interface. Is this a wise choice ?
Not necessarily. A dSLR will have several additional options and settings that aren't available on even the most advanced P&S. I think you should try out a Canon 400D if for no other reason than to confirm your prejudices.

10-Dee-Q wrote:
Quote:
3. So now i understand that to achieve "bokeh" i must use larger aperture lense prefferably prime lense, is thta right ? and can you reccomend any lens wide enough to do that ? for let's says wedding shots and such ?
'Bokeh' is the rendering of theout-of-focus objects in a photo that are outside thedepth-of-field of a lens.To get 'bokeh', yes, you needlarge aperture lenses, and most large aperture lenses are primes, but you generally need longer focal length lenses since shorter focal length lenses have larger depths of field. But a standard or medium telephoto zoom lens with a constant maximum aperature of f/2.8 can produce attractive'bokeh' under the right conditions.

10-Dee-Q wrote:
Quote:
4. my friend just bought the Nikon D40x and he trade the kit lense to the one that are included as D80 kit lense AF-S DX 18-135mm. Being newbie in this thing, but i've learn a bit and i think that lense spec is quite good than the canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM, question is that any canon lense that provide almost same spec and almost same price?

5. What i have in mind is :

-Canon 450D Body Only

-EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM or
any good "walk around" all around everyday lense to recoomend?

-1 more prime lense that are wide enough and bright enough for me to take wedding shots and suchs ?

will all that combination give me better picture over my canon G7 ?

i mainly shots :
candids,
potrait,
indoor night wedding like photo,
animals
scenery (mostly sunsets and night landscape)

can anybody give better idea for the lenses, i want to try to keep the lense not more thatn 2 units cause it'll be trouble some for me to bring a lot of lense in my bag.
By all accounts, the Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM is a fine lens, but it's not going to get you much in the way of 'bokeh'. It just doesn't have a large enough maximum aperture. It also won't be very good for candids, potrait or indoor, unless you use flash, and you stated in your initial post that you don't like using flash.

As alternatives, if you really want to stick with Canon, you might look at their EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM orEF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM. The larger, constant aperture of f/2.8 will give you better performance for what you're talking about.

I also caution you that simply buying a dSLR is not going to make your photos better. In many ways, a dSLR demands more from a photographer than the G7 you're using now. The camera has to break you in before you start taking better photos.
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 2:44 AM   #13
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The degree to which a picture is OOF depends on 3 variables.

Lens aperture: wider -> more OOF.
Lens focal length: longer -> more OOF.
Distance to point of focus: closer -> more OOF.

Usually you don't get all 3 unless you are doing Macro photography and this often means the DOF is too shallow and is very frustrating. 2 out of 3 is usually all you want or need.

So it is actually possible to get reasonably OOF backgrounds with the 17-85 when you are at full zoom and the subject has nice separation from the background. I'll try to dig up some examples for you.

The general rule then is that for longer focal lengths you don't need to worry too much about very wide apertures, for shorter lengths you do. And in both cases you should try to get good separation from the subject to its background.

In any event the difference between a P&S and a DSLR is very large, because the larger size of the sensor means you are using much longer focal lengths to get the same angle of view. This is also why when you move up to larger formats like FX (full-frame 35mm) and medium and large format you end up sometimes struggling with very shallow DOF where you might not want it.

The 17-85 is a nice all-rounder to match up with the Canon rebels. But TCav is correct it's not the BEST choice if your primary objective is to get lots of OOF areas. Something like a 50mm f1.4 is a good choice for that or perhaps the 85mm f1.8.
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 10:22 AM   #14
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okay so maybe i should get the
450d body only and EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM
and learn with that ,
being new to DSLR world i just don't want to buy the wrong equipment that will go to waste later on.

so for "all rounder" lense that meets my criteria , the closest i believe is the
canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM right ?
and if it's too ex, i should get the tamron 17-55 or sigma 17-55 ?
how will it compare with the canon in terms of image quality and "image stabilizer" ?
does the higher price of the canon enough to justify the quality over theM?
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 1:48 PM   #15
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10-Dee-Q wrote:
Quote:
okay so maybe i should get the
450d body only and EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM
and learn with that ,
being new to DSLR world i just don't want to buy the wrong equipment that will go to waste later on.

so for "all rounder" lense that meets my criteria , the closest i believe is the
canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM right ?
and if it's too ex, i should get the tamron 17-55 or sigma 17-55 ?
how will it compare with the canon in terms of image quality and "image stabilizer" ?
does the higher price of the canon enough to justify the quality over theM?
The EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM is a fine lens, and should suit you well.

The Tamron 17-50/2.8 and the Sigma 18-50/2.8 are less expensive, but they are also not stabilized. I have the Tamron and like it a lot, but I use it on a stabilized camera body.
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Old Feb 22, 2008, 12:40 AM   #16
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okay then so the canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM will be the "best" for my situation, or is there any lower priced lense that can be an option too ??

hehhehe
if not then the problem is solved, i'll be geeting 450D + EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM
i just hope that the zoom tele on that lense 55mm will be enough for my everyday use.

thx.
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Old Feb 22, 2008, 12:44 AM   #17
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btw again, is there any UV filter or protection filterthat i should buy ?
and which will you recommend :P
thank you.
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Old Feb 22, 2008, 3:29 AM   #18
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10-Dee-Q wrote:
Quote:
i just hope that the zoom tele on that lense 55mm will be enough for my everyday use.
The 35mm equivalent focal length of the 17-55 is 27-88mm. You could check the EXIF data in some of the photos you've taken with your G7 to see what 35mm equivalent focal length you've used in the past. If a significant number of the shots you've taken aren't in th erange of 27-88, then you won't be comfortable with that lens.

10-Dee-Q wrote:
Quote:
btw again, is there any UV filter or protection filterthat i should buy ?
and which will you recommend :P
thank you.
A UV filter is a good idea for a walkaround lens(especially with a $1000+ walkaround lens!) It will protect the lens, and will also eleminate some purple fringing.

Hoya and Tiffen are two manufacturers of good filters, and are widely available.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 10:01 AM   #19
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hi everyone, especially @tCav

i got another new question,
there's a shop in my country that already sell 450D
but the price is quite high, now i'm in the middle of decision wheter to buy which one of theese camera can you help me choose base on my needs thta i stated above ?
and which one is better buy ?
thank you very much.

#1> Canon 40D + Kit Lens EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS $1030

#2> Canon 40D + Lens Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM $1300

#3> Canon 450D + Kit Lens EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS $ 800

#4> Canon 450D + Lens Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM $1550


Which of theese would be my better bet ? i'm new in DSLR world so i need my camera to be easy to use, both the 450D and 40 D seems to have identical specs but i don't know why 40D is more expensive, can you described the differences ?
Thank you very much, can;t wait to buy one

BTW 40D + Lens Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM is not an option cause it cost way to much out of my budget.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 11:17 AM   #20
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Put them in price order, that's the "best" order too.

But you should try the 450D and 40D bodies and see which you like you might prefer the small and light nature of the 450 or you might like the solid nature of the 40.
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