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Old Apr 8, 2008, 9:19 AM   #1
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I'm interested in this Sony CyberShot DSC-W300:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665309162

But I would like to know, if a camera like this is taking pictures in same quality as eg. Canon IXUS 970:
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Prod...0_IS/index.asp

I know that the Sony T200 is said to take bad pictures with a low quality. But is the Sony W-serie better than the T-serie?

I going to use the camera to take holiday pictures and stuff like that.
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 10:27 AM   #2
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Dennis-

Let's take a few minutes to discuss what happens when a camera gets more and more megapixels added to it. Firstly, the manufacturer must employ a larger imager in theis case the 1/1.7 imager that is used on these cameras and the Canon G-9 as well. However, even increasing the size of the imager does not compensate enough to accommodate 2 to4 more megapixels.

Therefore the individual photos sites contained on the imager must become a good deal smaller in physical size. That reduction in the physical size of each photo site leads to a round robin of problems: noise becomes a factor with physically smaller photo sites on the imager. This requires the use of more noise reduction (usually referred to as NR) during the in-camera processing that happens within the camera. Sony calls theirs the BIonz processor, and Canon Calls theirs the Digic III processor.

As soon as the ISO setting is raised from it very lowest speed upwards, noise is apparent in the image. As noise appears, the processor jumps in with NR and the image is now degraded because the NR begins to smear the fine detail within the image. It becomes sort of a circular problem, as more ISO is used, it requires more NR, and the result is the further loss of even more fine detail within the image.

IMHO, the best solution is to stay at or below 8mp. Comparative cameras would be the Canon SD-850 or SD-870 (wide angle) with both at 8mp, I know that the Ixus cameras have different model numbers in the UK. There are so many SD or Ixus models I have a hard time keeping track of them, so I stay current with the models here in the USA. Thus in a 12 to 13mp camera, you will be forced to shoot only at the lowest ISO setting in a digicam.

The final factor is this: I consider it the wiser course of action to await a professional review of the camera or cameras, that might be your potential choices. You are making a sizable investment, so personally, I always choose to await the professional review. The two camera that you have selected are so very new that there are no published professional reviews yet.

Thanks for listening. Have a great day!

Sarah Joyce
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 11:27 AM   #3
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Thanks for your reply!

So you would recommend me to buy SD850 or SD870 even if they have lower resolution, megepixel and more? What about SD950 - isn't that a better camera? Which of thise three cameras would you recommend me to buy?
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 11:44 AM   #4
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dennis-

Compact cameras with megapixels in the 10+ range have been consistently shown to have smaller and small individual photosites which foster and support the noise and NR image smearing cycle. Therefore, you are correct, by choosing an 8mp digicam you will buy a way out of that noise/image degradation cycle.

Both the SD-850 and SD-870 have better photo quality at ISO settings above their lowest or baseline ISO setting. In Photography, flexibility is the key to consistently getting optimum IQ over a varied range of photo light environments.

The choice, Dennis, isof course entirely up to you. Iam just attempting to share with you what current research an in field operations have proven to be the case. I have attached a SD-870 photo sample.

Have a great day!

Sarah Joyce



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Old Apr 8, 2008, 6:53 PM   #5
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Dennis, here is a perfect example for you-

The attached photo was takenwith the Fuji F-20 at ISO 1600 without any flash. If you had used the Sony W-300 for this photo, because of the MP count on this camera (13+) noise and NR would have virtually dissolved the fine details completely.

But the Fuji F-20 with less MP and at ISO 1600, handles it rather well.

Sarah Joyce


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Old Apr 8, 2008, 8:32 PM   #6
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I agree with Sarah - the F20 is a great little camera in low light. I have used it a lot for night shots. The picture quality up to ISO 800 is outstanding, in my opinion, and you can make decent 4 X 6 prints from most of its ISO 1600 images. This camera was kind of lost on the sidelines when so much attention was being lavished on its Fujifilm "brothers", the F30 and F31fd. However, it's still available at least as a refurb while the other two have become very, very expensive and hard to get.
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 9:27 PM   #7
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You make an very excellent point, robbo-

All too often we forget that the Fuji F-20 (a pretty darned good camera is still available on the market right now). The focus seems to be on the very high megapixel digicam cameras that range from 10 to 13 pixels.

Please stand clear of those higher ISO-more NR syndrome cameras. Your images in the process of noise reduction will get so wiped out of fine details that they are junk.

We should seriously look at those lower MP equipped cameras, like the Fuji F-20, that do not fall victim to that high MP syndrome, and still retain a very good measure of fine detail.

Everyone of us are consumers, and folks we drive and detirmine what the camera manufacturers offer us. Please tell them that you are tired of the megapixel race. Your preference is fully in favor of a very good 6 MP cameras that can still very realistically retain their fine detail.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Apr 9, 2008, 3:26 AM   #8
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Well,

If I understand your points you don't recommend me to buy "PowerShot SD950 IS" (EU: IXUS 960 IS) because of the 12,1megapixel?

But what about the PowerShot SD890 IS (EU: IXUS 970 IS) with 10megapixel and 5xoptical zoom. Is that I good alternative for PowerShot SD870 IS (EU: IXUS 860 IS)?
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Old Apr 9, 2008, 7:16 AM   #9
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Dennis: I am where you are. I am considering either the newer 890IS (or 790IS) vs. the 850IS. Interesting enough, I am having trouble even finding 850IS's locally right now.

The key (for me at least) is image quality and the means used to help "ensure" that. I am reading all the press releases and Canon supplied info on the newly announced Canon SD890IS, 790IS, and 770IS. It appears, from what I am reading, that Motion Detection Technology, Face Recognition and Optical Image Stabilization has been "improved" somewhat over prior generations. More importantly, it appears that there is no differences in these areas among these 3 cameras --- i.e. there is no difference in the capabilities of the Motion Detection Technology, Face Recognition and Optical Image Stabilization on any of these 3 cameras. The only real differences among the 3 are (other than cosmetic):
--- 890IS: larger zoom (5x), OVF, and 2.5" LCD
--- 790IS: smaller zoom (3X), no OVF, and 3.0" LCD
--- 770IS: same as 790IS but with OVF and 2.5" LCD

If this indeed ends up being the case, I will probably end up with the 790IS: I find the 890IS a bit "larger"/"bulkier", in my hands at least, than I want in a "pocket camera".
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Old Apr 9, 2008, 7:44 AM   #10
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The Powershot SD950IS has received great reviews and its 12 mp doesn't seem to have added any significant noise to the photos. I don't know that its worth the extra money over the very similar 8 mp SD850IS.
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