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Old May 23, 2008, 11:32 AM   #21
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Well thank u everyone for all the valuable information !! Now the problem is .... everytime i decide on a camera, i get some comments which change my mind... so at present im thinking Canon 450D or Sony A300 .... now the only way i will sway either way would be the lenses available for the respective cameras and the affordability.

say 18-55mm as well as 18-200 or 55-250mm... now i know i have troubled all u folks enough and i have certainly learned so much from ur posts and comments... which im sure i wouldnt have gained by a bare reading of a buyers guide or some reference as to how to choose a camera and the lenses.

So all i ask for now is, say for example im getting the Sony A300 or Canon 450D... i would be very grateful if some light could be shed on these two cameras re: funcionality and re: lenses [quality + affordability].

Thanks a ton and appreciate it a lot !!
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Old May 24, 2008, 10:53 AM   #22
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The newer Canon takes nice photos, and it's got a great Autofocus system and viewfinder.

The Sony A300 has a smaller viewfinder, since Sony added a separate sensor for it's live view that takes up some space (but, that's what makes it's live view system work so well). The A200 has a little larger optical viewfinder. The Sony A200 or A300 will give you ISO 3200 if you need it. The Canon is limited to ISO 1600 (although you could underexpose a stop to simulate it and brightnen it later using software if you had to). The Sony would give you stablization with all lenses. The Canon would only give you that with their IS lenses (but, it looks like they're migrating towards more IS lenses, given that the new 18-55mm kit lens is stabilized).

For the type of zoom lenses you're looking at right now, either camera would work fine and you'll have a wide variety of third party zooms to choose from, too. Canon has the edge on some lenses (for example, they offer an 85mm f/1.8 USM lens for around $350). In a Sony solution, a brighter 85mm will cost you. Expect in the 700's and up for a used Minolta 85mm f/1.4 AF lens, depending on the exact version. A new Sony/Zeiss 85mm f/1.4 will cost you much more. Sony doesn't offer a dimmer 85mm f/1.8 lens (they only have the brighter Zeiss f/1.4 that costs around $1285 at vendors like B&H now). Note that Canon also has an 85mm f/1.2L that's selling for $1749 now right now at B&H. That's even brighter than Sony's Carl Zeiss 85mm f/1.4. But, even the latest USM version of Canon's 85mm f/1.2L is a bit slow to focus from reports I've seen (although faster than the earlier version). These brighter lens types are geared more towards Portraits.

You can find a Sony 50mm f/1.7 AF lens for around $100 though. Check reputable vendors like http://www.keh.com and http://www.bhphotovideo.com or http://www.adorama.com in their 35mm (not digital) Minolta Aufocus lenses section in the used listings. Sony also offers a new 50mm f/1.4 AF lens for about $325 now at vendors like B&H.

If you wanted an "all in one" type lens with a more aggresive focal range from wide to long as a walk around lens, I'd look at the Sony 18-250mm (around $499 now at B&H) or the Tamron 18-250mm for the Canon). The Tamron is also available for Canon. But, there is very little price difference in them and Sony made some improvements to the Tamron before rebadging it (build quality imiprovements, regeared for faster focus). You can see a review of the Sony version here:

http://www.alphamountworld.com/revie...-f35-63-review

Center sharpness seems pretty good through most of the focal range with this optical design (although you may see a bit of CA or softness as you get further away from center at some apertures and focal lengths). These types tend to be a bit worse at zoom extremes (longest or shortest end) Barrel Distortion on the wider 18mm end is also a bit worse with this type of lens compared to the standard kit lenses, especially at zoom extremes (mostly barrel distortion on the 18mm end). But, you'll have some of the same thing with the kit lenses, too (any choice is a compromise in one area or another).

Here's a review of the Tamron (on a Canon body, but it's available in multiple lens mounts). Note that this solution wouldn't be stablized on a Canon body though.

Tamron 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 Review at photozone.de

Or, until you get some more experience with a camera, you may want to stick with a basic kit lens (18-55 or 18-70). That way, you can make better informed decisions on what lenses you may or may not need, after you have an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of this lens type. Or, go with a smaller and lighter two lens kit if desired like you mentioned for the Canon (18-55mm, 55-250mm). Sony has a similar A300 kit (18-70mm, 55-200mm) with a bit longer available focal length on the wider zoom, and a bit shorter 200mm focal length on the long end). I'd probably wait on the longer zoom until you've had a chance to use it and decide if something reaching out to 300mm may be better (for example, one of the 70-300mm type lenses).

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Old May 24, 2008, 9:22 PM   #23
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Thank you jimc...I went and handled the xsi/xti/d40/d40x/d60/40d/d80..and i felt the xsi 450d felt very good and had a nice vieewfinder..the 40d was sweet but alot larger for what i wanted...so soon i will try the a200/300/350.

I would like a 85 mm lens for candid work maybe a 105mm....as well as a 24-135 2.8..something like this...i am really torn...
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Old May 25, 2008, 3:04 AM   #24
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thank u all.....

i have got all the information now.... i want a verdict .... the jury still seems to be out on this .... i need help ... now !!

JimC please please advice me what u buy [i promise i wont put it on u later... ]

No seriously guys i need a solution to this.... so tell me which one should i buy ;

Is AF important... how much points would u give to in built IS/VR in the body ...

i really need to take a decision now as i will be travelling n want to buy it before that ..

thank u

EDIT: Jageya im waiting for u to take a look at the A200/300 ....
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Old May 25, 2008, 5:00 AM   #25
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I'm in a similar dilemma but am plumping for the Canon 450D because of the range of lenses and because Canon have worked hard to make changes and improve on the mistakes of the 400D. I'd much prefer a tilting live view screen and will miss this when I sell my Canon G5 - Actually I love this little compact and might keep it).

Also here in the UK, I feel Canon has better maintenance and backup support to Nikon from whom I purchased a £400 Coolpix a few back which was unreliable and a complete waste of money!


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Old May 25, 2008, 1:49 PM   #26
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Phreaker18...I will be handling the a200/300/350 next week....take your time with a decision..these cameras arent going anywhere..lol..

My concerns with the canon 450d are>>



1) lens IS..vs in body IS. This will limit lenses you can use i guess. so propietary lens make me cringe a bit..but there is a large selection.

2) more megapix>> this may "need" better lens glass to really bring out the better iq that is possible????? i may be wrong but this is my understanding.



As i stated i am not into sports photos..or animal photos in wildlife as well as birds or airplanes. My needs are low light portraits and street scenes..day and evening are also in there as well... candid people shots..artistic lighting dynamics...good DOF shots and sweet bokeh looks...as well as city architecture when traveling.

Will i take a pic of a bug macro close up? Likely not but i may for the hec of it..Will i do any indoor studio work? likely not as i like to work with natural lighting.

Will i take shots of a ball game or car race or soccer game? No...but maybe a bullfight if i go to spain again...lol,...

I know that these dslr can have a host of functions across a large area..but i am wondering if for my needs one will work better then another....for example..maybe the sony will allow me to use older fater minolta lenses that can be cheaper to buy for better low light photos? Versus say the canon 450d expense for an is lowlight lens??

I should have kept all my canon glass from 20 yrs ago when i sold my whole a2 setup but i didnt.l..lol....so i just want to make an informed decision i can grow into in the years ahead.
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Old May 25, 2008, 2:38 PM   #27
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phreaker18 wrote:
Quote:
i have got all the information now.... i want a verdict .... the jury still seems to be out on this .... i need help ... now !!
[snip]
JimC please please advice me what u buy [i promise i wont put it on u later...
[snip]

EDIT: Jageya im waiting for u to take a look at the A200/300 ....
You need to take a look at them and weigh the pros and cons of live view versus the better viewfinder without live view in the Sony models.

Now, I have seen people with both cameras say that they really don't mind the smaller viewfinder in the live view model much when shooting. But, you'll have to decide for yourself.

These are all good cameras. ;-)

I'm biased towards Sony because I shoot with a Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D and Sony DSLR-A700.

I think Sony is going to be a very strong player in this market as time passes, too. Sony managed to grab 6% of the worldwide dSLR market in 2006, despite only having one dSLR model (the A100), that was only available for about 6 months of that year (placing them 3rd in worldwide dSLR marketshare behind Canon and Nikon). They managed to hold on to that same marketshare and third place in the dSLR niche for 2007, despite having that same one dSLR model for most of the year, only starting to ship the Sony A700 in the last quarter.

Now, Sony has released an A200, A300, A350, and A700, with a new full frame 24.6MP flagship model to be released later this year. Think about it... 1 model gave them 6% of worldwide dSLR marketshare, and now they've got 4 new models (that IMO, are better overall cameras compared to the entry level Nikon models), with at least one more new dSLR model coming out later this year. I think Sony knows exactly what they're doing.

Sony is already the second largest manufacturer of digital cameras behind Canon. Nikon is not even close they're so far behind, and Sony just getting warmed up in the dSLR market niche.

It looks like they're going to spend some money on marketing them, too. For example, I saw a recent thread from someone attending a soccer tournament that said Sony had 1500 cameras there (that they were letting patrons check out). The AF system on the newer Sony models is very good (much faster than the Sony A100).

Sony is the only dSLR model around with a decent live view system now. So, I think Sony is being *very* smart with their approach to the market, so that users looking to upgrade from a point and shoot to a dSLR have models that are easy to grow into, complete with [fast and usable] Live View.

Again, I am a bit biased (since I'm shooting with a Sony DSLR-A700 right now) ;-)

Try them out for yourself and see what you like better. Any of the cameras you're looking at are capable of taking great photos.

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Old May 30, 2008, 8:26 AM   #28
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Thanks for the reply...

actually i have decided to go check out the Canon 450D and the Sony A200 & A300 ...
the only think im a little bit apprehensive about is that if i choose a Sony then i hope i won't be limiting myself on the variety of lenses aspect...

so i just wanted to ask u guys whether the lenses available for the Sony Ds are less in number or quality... i somehow like the idea of the IS being built into the body .. that way u think i can maybe [subject to correction] cut down on the price of the more expensive VR lenses...

One more thing i wanted to clarify was that does the Sony Ds have AF in the body or do the lenses have to have AF ....

So after i get my questions answered i will actually go and handle the cameras and see which one fits my hand and which one has a better feel to it...

While im on here id also like to ask which one would be a good prime lens do shoot landscapes... architecture [city and ancient]..

thanks a lot

p.s - Jageya did u finally manage to put ur hands on the Sony Ds ?? if so ...any thoughts .... thanks
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Old May 30, 2008, 8:55 AM   #29
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phreaker18 wrote:
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...the only think im a little bit apprehensive about is that if i choose a Sony then i hope i won't be limiting myself on the variety of lenses aspect...
The Sony models can use any Minolta Autofocus lens, and you'll usually find more used Autofocus lenses in Minolta Autofocus Mount (a.k.a., Maxxum, Dynax, Alpha, Minolta A Mount) at popular vendors of used gear like http://www.keh.com, http://www.bhphotovideo.com and http://www.adorama.com compared to Autofocus lenses from Nikon, Canon and others. Also keep in mind that third party manufacturers like Sigma and Tamron also make lenses for Sony dSLR models.

There are many lens choices available. Here are some incomplete lists:

Fixed Focal Length Lenses in Minolta A mount

Macro Lenses in Minolta A Mount

Zoom Lenses in Minolta A mount

Quote:
One more thing i wanted to clarify was that does the Sony Ds have AF in the body or do the lenses have to have AF ....
All Sony dSLR bodies have a built in focus motor. But, some lenses also have a built in focus motor that Minolta and Sony call SSM (Supersonic Motor), which is similar to Canon's USM (Ultrasonic Motor) or Nikon's AF-S (Silent Wave Motor) or Sigma's HSM (Hypersonic Motor).

Quote:
While im on here id also like to ask which one would be a good prime lens do shoot landscapes... architecture [city and ancient]..
There are pros and cons to any of them. I've got a variety of Minolta Autofocus primes that I use (28mm f/2, 50mm f/1.7, 100mm f/2, 135mm f/2.8 ). But, you may want something wider, too.

I'd probably use the zoom you choose for a while to get a better feel for what your lens needs are, so you can make a better informed decision later (focal length, optical quality needs, etc.), versus spending a lot of money up front on lenses that may not be a good fit for your shooting style.

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