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Old Sep 6, 2008, 3:19 AM   #1
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I can buy a nearly new 30D ora 450D, i know that the 450D will have new added features but i'm mainly looking for top per pixel performance.

By looking at some pictures in 'pbase' i notice that the 30D produces better , sharper , crisper pictures , what do you think ?
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Old Sep 6, 2008, 7:05 AM   #2
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I think much of the "better, sharper, crisper" part is from the lens more than the camera. The 30D is a fine camera, but it's only 8MP compared to the 12MP 450D. And the 450D has 'Live View' if that's important to you.
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Old Sep 6, 2008, 7:36 AM   #3
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What do you want to shoot (subjects, conditions)? I'd personally go for the 30D between those two cameras.

It's a higher end model with better build quality and ergonomics, faster frame rate, and higher available ISO speeds (with lower noise levels, especially since it's more sensitive than it's rated ISO speed). It's lower resolution sensor will also place less demands on lens quality needed for best results. Unless you plan on printing at larger sizes often, I wouldn't worry about the difference in pixels (the 12MP sensor would allow you to print at a roughly 25% larger size, with the same number of pixels representing your subject as the 8MP sensor in the 30D).

As for Live View, it's more gimmick than useful. See Steve's review conclusion for the XS, where you'll see more detail on Canon's system in these models. Here's one part of that section:

Quote:
The usefulness of Live View on the Rebel XS (and XSi for that matter) is something that I could not find.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2008_...el_xs_pg7.html

For some types of closeups where you don't mind the issues using it, I can see where it might be handy since you can magnify the image on screen. But, for most practical purposes, I don't think you'd find many people that would actually want to use it.


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Old Sep 6, 2008, 9:24 AM   #4
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I would also ask - is there something about your E-510 you don't like? Perhaps something can be changed there (better lens, flash etc...) that would be less expensive than changing entire systems.
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Old Sep 6, 2008, 10:45 AM   #5
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TCav wrote:
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I think much of the "better, sharper, crisper" part is from the lens more than the camera. The 30D is a fine camera, but it's only 8MP compared to the 12MP 450D. And the 450D has 'Live View' if that's important to you.
I don't care for the extra resolution and i never use 'live view' , i print no higher then A4 size.
I was comparing pictures taken with both cameras with the same lenses and there is a clear difference in favor of the 30D , makes me wonder if the 40D would be a cool choice too because prices should decrease when the new 50D comes out.
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Old Sep 6, 2008, 10:51 AM   #6
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JimC wrote:
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What do you want to shoot (subjects, conditions)? I'd personally go for the 30D between those two cameras.

It's a higher end model with better build quality and ergonomics, faster frame rate, and higher available ISO speeds (with lower noise levels, especially since it's more sensitive than it's rated ISO speed). It's lower resolution sensor will also place less demands on lens quality needed for best results. Unless you plan on printing at larger sizes often, I wouldn't worry about the difference in pixels (the 12MP sensor would allow you to print at a roughly 25% larger size, with the same number of pixels representing your subject as the 8MP sensor in the 30D).

As for Live View, it's more gimmick than useful. See Steve's review conclusion for the XS, where you'll see more detail on Canon's system in these models. Here's one part of that section:

Quote:
The usefulness of Live View on the Rebel XS (and XSi for that matter) is something that I could not find.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2008_...el_xs_pg7.html

For some types of closeups where you don't mind the issues using it, I can see where it might be handy since you can magnify the image on screen. But, for most practical purposes, I don't think you'd find many people that would actually want to use it.

I mostly shoot portraits , skin tones , WB and sensitivity to high ISO are most important for me.
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Old Sep 6, 2008, 10:54 AM   #7
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JohnG wrote:
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I would also ask - is there something about your E-510 you don't like? Perhaps something can be changed there (better lens, flash etc...) that would be less expensive than changing entire systems.


Images are too soft and there is no difference between jpeg and raw quality.

High ISO isn't great , 800 ISO is about the limit here and another feature thatannoyes me is the viewfinder size .... keyhole type :lol::evil:

The lens is not an issue , i use the excellent 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5

I do love the 4/3 format , great for portraits


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Old Sep 6, 2008, 11:09 AM   #8
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Per pixel image quality tends to be in the eye of the beholder, and it's very subjective.

As a general rule, the entry level models are going to lean towards more aggressive image processing (sharpening, contrast, etc.) by default. Personally, I prefer a more conservative approach.

If you're not printing at larger sizes, I wouldn't see a reason to go with a model like the 450D for my taste in images, especially given that the 30D is a higher end model, with higher available ISO speeds, better build quality and more. So, you'd have more flexibility with that type of camera in more shooting conditions.

Of course, at smaller print and viewing sizes, you may not notice the difference anyway, and not everyone is going to use higher ISO speed settings or need things like the faster frame rate the 30D provides. A lot depends on what you want to shoot and the conditions you'll use a camera in.

JohnG makes a good point though... I didn't realize you were using an E-510 now. What is it you find limiting about it? Sometimes, changing systems is not the answer unless you have some type of limitation that you can't overcome with your existing camera model.



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Old Sep 6, 2008, 11:15 AM   #9
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I didn't see your replies before I posted

None of the dSLR models are going to have great auto white balance. You'll need to set it yourself for best results.

As for noise levels, if you're keeping print sizes small, it may not be an issue. If you did switch systems, keep in mind that you'll need pretty good glass to go with a new system for best results, and you'll find that most of the Zuiko lenses are pretty good within a given lens niche.

One thing you may appreciate for portraits is the shallower Depth of Field you get with a model using a larger sensor size for any given aperture and subject framing if you like a creamier bokeh, though.

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