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Old Oct 28, 2008, 12:23 PM   #1
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Hi,

My wife and I are used to using a Canon Rebel SLR 35mm camera as our main family fun pciture camera.

I purchased a Samsung L73 digicam for her last year for Christmas.

Our problem is a common one, I know, but I can't seem to find a straight answer, so I will pose the question specifically.

Is there a point and shoot digicam with NO delay with red-eye disabled?

I realize that the camera needs to focus, and there is a delay writing to the card, but the delay I see on nearly ALL the digital cameras is not due to these typical functions. For example, my rebel camera had autofocus and many other features, but there was virtually NO delay once focus had been done.

I noticed a woman at church once during a baptism who was trying to take pictures of the "magic moment" she would stand, push the button and click! The red eye light would flash, then she would sit down, and put the camera down and I could see the camera actually take the picture. All of her pictures were gone.

For me, I try taking a picture of my daughter and even with red eye off, the camera is frustratingly slow. I miss nearly every spontaneous shot I try to take.
Also the camera just takes really crappy pictures. Nowhere near as nice as my beat up rebel camera still does.


My wife wants to go back to film cameras and really, I am tempted to get her one.

For me this digital stuff stinks!


All I want is autofocus that works and NO DELAY

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Old Oct 28, 2008, 12:47 PM   #2
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If you're already using a Canon SLR film camera, why not look at an entry level Canon dSLR model?

For example, you could pick up a Canon Digital Rebel XS for around $529 now.

A dSLR model like that will have faster Autofocus compared to the entry level models, as well as a hotshoe to use an external flash for better results.

Many factors influence Autofocus Speed (which is usually the longer part of the wait), including the lens, focal length, lighting levels, subject contrast and more). When prefocused, most newer models are relatively fast. With a flash, you'll still have a metering preflash, even with Redeye Reduction turned off. But, a dSLR is usually very fast in this area (around 100ms or less between the preflash and main flash in most cases).

If you read the review conclusions (last page before the sample images in each review here), you'll see comments in camera performance (autofocus time, cycle time between photos with and without flash, number of photos in a burst in various modes and more).


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Old Oct 28, 2008, 12:57 PM   #3
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I guess what I am asking for is unclear.

What I, and 90% of camera consumers want is a point and shoot camera that you can pick up turn on and take a picture of a UFO and get a decent shot.

(UFO =UR favorite object)

Let's face it a disposable 35mm camera can do that, why can't a digicam do that?








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Old Oct 28, 2008, 1:05 PM   #4
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You aren't going to find anything that is as fast as a DSLR with a full shutter press. Most people with non-DSLR cameras learn to half press the shutter and wait for the moment to take the photo. There is virtually no delay when you do that.

It is irritating with kids and people in dynamic situations to keep releasing and resetting the half-press when they move. Some cameras have a continuous focus mode that continues to focus while you are holding the half-press. So even if your target moves around you have instant response when you see the shot you want. Most brands with continuous focus works that way. Panasonic doesn't. Once they lock onto a bad idea they seem to never change. Reviewers don't think continuous focus is important so they never mention how it works or how effective it is. About the only way to know is to ask on the boards for someone with the camera to check it for you. I did that with my last purchase.

Cameras get the greatest dynamic range with minimum contrast. Unfortunately the pictures look a little flat on cameras you can set to low contrast. I have a Photoshop action that brings the photos up to crisp looking, but I save the originals if I want to do individual PP. You might try making an action you can bulk process for your current camera to see if you can't get the images looking better. You might also try shooting with a half-press and checking whether there is a continuous focus mode you can turn on to make that work better.

You can check the reviews to find a camera with less delay, but there really isn't a small camera with no delay.




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Old Oct 28, 2008, 1:07 PM   #5
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If you read the review conclusions here, you can see how models compare, as mentioned before. ;-)

Quote:
If you read the review conclusions (last page before the sample images in each review here), you'll see comments in camera performance (autofocus time, cycle time between photos with and without flash, number of photos in a burst in various modes and more).
Some models perform better compared to others and the review conclusions here discuss camera performance.

A good place to start your search would be Steve's Best Cameras List , which contains models deemed to be a good value within their market niche.

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Old Oct 28, 2008, 2:18 PM   #6
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With my 35mm Rebel G, I half press the button to pre-focusand (with red-eye off) I KNOW that my picture will be taken INSTANTLY.

With seemingly any digital camera, this does not seem to be the case.

In fact, the situaltion is much worse, because you miss the original picture and then press again to try to salvage the moment, and the camera is writing the file and processing the picture and then refocusing so you are totally hosed.

Now the interesting thing to me is that this is a VERY common sentiment from consumers about digital cameras. I would think that someone would build a camera to address these issues.

And, honestly, when I was shopping for a camera the last time I DID look for information addressing these concerns and I could find no helpful guide. Even still, it seems as though this is taken as a "fact of life" when in fact, it shouldn't be.

I am at a loss, I can't go looking at a million camera reviews looking for the reviewer to say the camera does not have an issue which noone thinks is an issue in the first place!

One camera for instance has a reputation for being very fast. the Kodak Z1012. I looked at this at lunch and was able to take a few shots with it. The problem is, this camera is so feature rich with features I wont use, they just become a encumberance! In addition, when I changed subject matter and distance the camera would, like all others, Analyse the new scene and essentially hang the camera making it useless.

I just want a damn pin-hole digital camera!


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Old Oct 28, 2008, 2:56 PM   #7
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I can't imagine what camera you bought that the half-press times don't seem instant. I just grabbed data for the first compact I ran across – in this case a Casio S10. The 0.008 seconds is fairly typical of current small cameras. Ok, so some might be as high as 0.02, but I don't think even that would seem like an eternity.

Shot to shot times do vary and sometimes can be irritating. But very much over 2 seconds is rare.

Anything you buy anymore seems to have intelligent modes that guess what you might be shooting and shift to the best scene mode and ISO. That plus things like face detection and shadow/highlight compression make them about as point and shoot as any cameras have ever been. I don't turn any of that stuff on with my pocket camera, but you seem to want something simple for your second camera. Almost any current camera has modes that require you to operate only the power switch, zoom control and shutter.


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Old Oct 28, 2008, 3:23 PM   #8
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I am going to play with my camera tonight and try to figure this out.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

If I get my kid to sit still and "prefocus" I will usually get an ok shot (assuming red-eye is off). However, this is signifigantly different from my 35mm, in that the time from turning on the camera, autofocusing and shot is amazingly fast.

So what I am talking about is not pure shutter lag, but the penchant of the camera to take it's bloody time doing everything other than that.

Maybe the Samsung L73 is just a crappy camera?
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Old Oct 28, 2008, 7:14 PM   #9
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The half-press takes care of setting the camera to the proper exposure and focus, then the completed full-press is nearly instantaneous, as has been stated.

If you have a camera like the Canon G9, you can preconfigure it to settings that allow you to have an almost instant response. Here is a link describing how this is done.

http://lifespy.wordpress.com/2008/02...ode-on-the-g9/

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Old Oct 29, 2008, 2:51 AM   #10
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stickboy2k

Firstly, you are conflating digital SLR cameras with digital P&S cameras. They are not the same.

You will get equal AF performance (probably better in fact) from a Digital SLR than from your old 35mm Rebel. So you don't have to go back to film.

Secondly, you understand, but are frustrated with red-eye reduction; you know that to reduce red-eye the camera pre-flashes and gives the subject's pupils time to dilate then takes the actual picture. The only way around this is to move the flash source away from the axis of the lens, so the red reflection from the retina doesn't reflect back into the lens. Once again a Digital SLR gives you some options here, attaching an external flash helps a lot, and ifyou can bounce from the walls or ceiling the problem goes away completely.

Thirdly there is allegedly help at hand for you. The new Panasonic G1, which uses contrast-detect AF like P&S cameras, is due to be released. It is, by the accounts of early reviews and Panasonic's marketing material, the fastest contrast AF system by a huge margin. They claim it is as fast as the phase detect AF in comparable SLR systems. It is also the first camera using the Micro 4/3 system, which means interchangeable lenses but without the size penalty associated with the mirror box onSLR systems.

So my advice is this, either get yourself a nice entry-level digital SLR camera or put in an order for the Panasonic G1, coming soon to shops near you.



http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_G...142/index.html

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