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Old Aug 11, 2009, 6:49 AM   #1
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Default D700 or 5D mark II

Hi all
I want to buy Full frame camera and lenses and flash, my budget is around $5000
So i want to choose either Nikon D700 or Canon 5d Mark II and lenses cover the range from 24-400 mm and a high end flash
what i see is that 5d mark II specifications is better (21mp ,super full HD)but the foucs system of the D700 is more advanced
what you advice me ?
Is the focus system (in practical use) of D700 is much better than of 5d2
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 7:16 AM   #2
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It depends what you want to shoot and for what output so this will be key to choosing.

What subjects are you looking at, is anything for printing, what sizes, who is the audience etc?
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 7:18 AM   #3
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What type of photos are you planning on shooting (subject types, conditions)?

The greatest strength of the AF system used in the higher end Nikon models like D700, D3, and D3x is the ability to track subjects using focus distance and color information. In very "busy" conditions (i.e., momentary obstructions between the camera and your primary subject when tracking rapid movement), it's hard to do any better with the technology being used in Nikon's pro level bodies. But, I haven't seen a direct comparison with Canon's Pro Level bodies lately (although you need a 1 series body in the Canon lineup for the best AF), and it's hard to measure that kind of thing anyway (how well a given camera/lens combination works for predicative Autofocus). Lens choice is also very important (as you can see a pretty big difference in AF speed between different lenses used on the same camera body).

From what I can see from your posting history, you're using a Canon SX1 IS right now. So, even an entry level dSLR is going to do better in most conditions. Any of the pro level bodies have excellent AF systems.

With a $5000 budget, it's going to be tough to get what you're looking for if you want higher quality lenses that cover all the way to 400mm, depending on the conditions you plan on shooting in (and if you're worried about the differences between AF speed with these models, then your lens choices are going to be important for the fastest AF speed, especially in lower light conditions where you'll want lenses with wider available apertures).

I'd give members more information to work with on the conditions you plan on using the camera in and what you intend to accomplish by going with a full frame kit. Brighter lenses reaching out to 400mm are not cheap.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 8:37 AM   #4
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The canon 5d mark II has an AF a little lower then the Canon 50d.
A comparison between Nikon AF (d300,d300s, d700,d3 and d3x) should be done only with the canon 1d mark series.

If you could spend some thousand of dollar for cover 400 mm you can use a teleconverter 1.5
so you can could save something from the total cost of a similar solution.

Also i think would better known the specific requirements for the event where you are interested.

The strong point of Canon are the lens generally more cheaper then the equivalent Nikon lens.
The strong point of Nikon is the first class AF.

Also considered that the resolution is not everything if it is not supported by appropriate lenses (in Canon means L glasses).

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Old Aug 11, 2009, 8:47 AM   #5
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What kind of photography do you want to do?

If landscape is very important go for the 5DMkII.

For action (sports/wildlife) go for the D700.

Both are very good for portrait/wedding/street/etc. There is very little to choose between them at high-ISO settings, with the edge going to the Nikon. Only the Canon has video of course so that might be a deciding factor for you.

You may want to choose on the basis of lenses, both have excellent systems, but I think only the Canon will give you good quality and the right price over the range you want.

5D2 + 24-105 L ($3500) + 100-400 L ($1500) = $5,000!

Nikon can't give you that quality at that price on the lenses. The Nikon 24-120 VR lens is universally regarded as a dog so you would probably rather have the 24-70 f2.8. ($1770) Their 80-400 is pretty good. ($1600). With the body ($3000) you are up at around $6,400 v $5,000 for the Canon - but it's not like-for-like of course.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 9:26 AM   #6
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OK, one word of caution to tag onto Peripatetic's post. If you're going to jump into semi-pro full-frame DSLRs, you CANNOT expect great results by just buying lenses to cover focal lengths. A perfect example - the 2 lenses Peripatetic suggested in Canon's lineup (24-105 and 100-400) successfully cover your focal length requirements but they may be poor choices for the photography you want to do (although the 24-105 is a great walk-around lens). It's extremely important to match lenses against your specific requirements. 70-200 f4 doesn't have the reach of the 100-400 but may be a much better match. If you're doing wedding work or course the 70-200 2.8 IS would be a good fit (as would say 85mm 1.2, 50mm 1.4 and several other lenses). Depending on what you need, the 16-35 f2.8 might be useful.

You CANNOT expect semi-pro / pro results by simply buying a full frame camera then slapping on lenses just to cover focal length - even if those lenses are pro grade.

So, you have to get specific as to what you want to shoot. It is absolutely possible you will not be able to meet your needs with only $5,000 budget IF you want semi-pro / pro level results. If you're not after semi-pro / pro level results I would question why you're looking at these camera bodies.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 10:32 AM   #7
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A budget of $5,000 can get eaten up pretty quickly for a FF dSLR. Good FF lenses cost a lot more than good APS-C lenses. To get the same maximum aperture and angle of view on a FF dSLR that an APS-C dSLR would get with a 70-200mm f/2.8, which can sell for as little as $700, you'd need the Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 which sells for $3,200! The $480 Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 on an APS-C dSLR has the same maximum aperture and angle of view as the $1,300 Canon 24-70 L. A 50mm f/1.4 lens ($300-$500) has almost the same angle of view on an APS-C dSLR as an 85mm f/1.4 ($1,200) on a FF dSLR.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 2:53 PM   #8
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Thanks for your fast reply
Iam not a professional photographer >>> most time i shoot as hoppy and i shoot landescapes ,portat,action ,some press photos (i live in a hotspot area -Gaza Strip- so press photos can get me some money) my mission is to bring the beauty of gaza to all the word
these are samples shooted using sx1 is

As you see i shoot every thing i see but due to my sx1 is i cant shoot fast moving objects or good night photography
the most important thing in high reslution(21) is the ability to crop so what you advice me and the 5000 dolar as start and in fucture i will buy more lenses

Last edited by LightHunter; Aug 11, 2009 at 3:11 PM.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 3:12 PM   #9
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Do you really need full frame?? Yes you will get a little better dynamic range and high ISO performance, but it will be tough to cover the focal range you desire with high quality lenses. You could drop back to the Nikon D300 (or 300s) and still have very good high iso performance. You could then go with one of the third party f2.8 zooms (Sigma 18-50, Tamron 17-50 or Tokina 16-50), the Nikon 70-200 f2.8, and a Sb900 flash with plenty left to spare for other accessories (bags, batteries, etc). Going with the Tokina 16-50 gets you from 24-300mm, a little shorter than you wanted, but well within budget, and very high quality.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 4:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by LightHunter View Post
As you see i shoot every thing i see but due to my sx1 is i cant shoot fast moving objects or good night photography
What type of fast moving subjects are you trying to shoot, and in what conditions?

Nothing I've seen you post is anything that would sway me towards you needing a higher end AF system, or higher ISO speeds available with models like the Nikon D700.

As for photos at night, use a tripod, or use flash if your subjects are moving. ;-)

the most important thing in high reslution(21) is the ability to crop so what you advice me and the 5000 dolar as start and in fucture i will buy more lenses
You can't crop as much as you think and still maintain good detail. Now, having said that, with a higher resolution camera using a 24MP sensor like the Nikon D3x or Sony A700, you could actually crop the image to look like you used a camera model with an APS-C size sensor, and still have over 10 Megapixels left (or use a lens designed for an APS-C size sensor and let the camera crop the image for you, as both the Nikon D3x and Sony A700 can do that automatically for you).

For maximum resolution, get a longer lens instead of cropping. The Nikon D700 and Nikon D3 are great for higher ISO speed use. But, they're 12MP models. So, you can't crop as much with them compared to the higher resolution models (Canon EOS-5D Mark II, Sony A700, Nikon D3x), depending on viewing/print sizes needed.

If you really want more detail at full resolution, with high quality lenses reaching out to 400mm, it will cost you. Here's an example of a Sony A900 solution (using U.S. retail pricing).

Sony A900 $2699
Sony/Carl Zeiss 24-70mm f/2.8 SSM $1599
Sony 70-400mm f/4-5.6G SSM - $1599
Sony HVL-F58AM Flash - $499

Total kit price: approximately $6396

A similar Canon EOS-5D Mark II system using a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L and Canon 100-400mm f/4-5.6 would cost you almost as much. Here's what I'm seeing at a popular U.S. Vendor right now:

Canon EOS 5D Mark II $2699
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L USM $1270
Canon 100-400mm f/4-5.6L IS USM $1500
Canon 580EX II Flash $420

Total kit price: approximately $5889

The Sony/Carl Zeiss 24-70mm f/2.8 lens is sharper compared to the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L (and still a bit sharper compared to the Nikkor 24-70mm f/2/8). But, you could use a Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM lens with the Sony, Canon or Nikon models and save a few bucks. They tend to rank like this in order of overall sharpness at various apertures and focal lengths (from best to last):

1. Sony 24-70mm f/2.8 SSM
2. Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8 AF-S
3. Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 HSM
4. Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 USM

If you value focal range from wide to long more versus a wider available aperture like f/2.8, then the Canon 24-105mm f/4L is a popular lens, and Nikon and Sony don't have anything that matches it's quality in a full frame lens with that much focal range starting out at 24mm (yet).

But, if I were you, I'd wait a little longer to see how prices settle in towards the end of the Summer. Manufacturers tend to make a lot of changes around this time of year, so that they'll have more competitive offerings leading into the end of year buying season.
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