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Old Sep 15, 2009, 10:42 PM   #331
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For my outdoor pictures, I used ISO 400, WB Daylight, +1.0 EV, continuous shooting burst mode, 3:2 (8M) resolution, steadyshot shooting mode, standard sharpness, standard contrast, color mode normal, DRO standard, metering mode center (not spot).

For the indoor shots most was the same except for ISO 800. I also tried the sports scene mode but the LCD was too dark to see so I didn't stick with that.

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Old Sep 15, 2009, 11:22 PM   #332
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Sarah was good enough to provide several camera buying tips in a recent post regarding 30 day trial period etc.


I would like to know my friends' opinions regarding:
  1. online vs local store purchases.
  2. store provided extended warranties
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Old Sep 15, 2009, 11:26 PM   #333
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I am testing a theory. Let me know if you can see the EXIF info on this picture.
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Old Sep 16, 2009, 5:33 AM   #334
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Yes. I see the problem. You were using Manual Exposure (M on your mode dial), and that shot was taken at ISO 400, f/9 and 1/125 second.

That shutter speed is way too slow for the aperture and ISO speed used for brighter daylight lighting.

If you use Manual Exposure, you need to make sure your settings are not going to result in underexposure or overexposure. That photo is overexposed (too bright). Trying to use shutter speeds that slow for capturing moving subjects is also going to result in a lot of blur from subject movement.

Your H20 has a built in meter. If you use manual exposure, you'll see a numeric EV value to the right of your settings for aperture and shutter speed. When it's at zero, then your settings are matching what the camera is metering for correct exposure (and any number of aperture/shutter speed combinations will result in the same exposure). When you see a positive value, your settings are exposing brighter than the camera metered. When you see a negative value, your settings are resulting in a darker photo than the camera metered.

You also had a lot of dark areas (the horses) in that image, which can tend to cause overexposure anyway (you will often need to use a -EV setting with a lot of dark areas in the frame because metering systems are easily fooled by that kind of subject). So, by using a setting combination that resulted in a positive EV reading from your meter, you made the problem even worse (more overexposure than you would normally see with that subject type). My guess is that same problem occurred with your inside circus photos (because a lot of dark areas in the frame tends to cause a camera to overexpose).

What I'd suggest is using a different mode until you have a better understanding of the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, iso speed and lighting (and become accustomed to your camera's metering behavior in different conditions). If you use manual exposure (as in that photo), you'll need to make sure your settings are appropriate for the conditions you're shooting in (and if lighting is changing, you also need to constantly adjust your settings with manual exposure). If the lighting is constant, then manual exposure can be a better bet (since you don't need to change settings as often), as long as you are careful that your settings are not going to result in incorrect exposure.

With a different mode (for example, Programmed Auto), the camera will automatically adjust the settings for the lighting you're shooting in, while still giving you some control. For example, allowing you to use a higher ISO speed if shutter speeds selected are not fast enough for the subject type and conditions, or letting you set Exposure Compensation for a darker or brighter exposure than the camera is metering if conditions warrant it. For example, for that photo, I would have probably used a -EV setting for a darker exposure than the camera was metering.
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Old Sep 16, 2009, 7:23 AM   #335
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Rita,
I have went through more than one camera with Amazon.com. I do not have a camera store near where I live, and the closest Wal mart even is 30 miles away. Electronic stores are 50 miles away. With Amazon, you can get your item in a couple days, or even overnight, and can return it within 30 days, no questions asked, as long as still in new condition and in original boxes. Within just a couple of days of them receiving the returned item, your money is credited back to your card. Now there may be other online vendors that do the same thing, I'm just not aware. Sarah Joyce actually pointed me toward Amazon. I had a hard time deciding on a camera, and sent a couple back along with a lens. I'm finally happy with my choice, and have actually kept this one longer than the 30 days! Hope this helps.

Suzie

Last edited by dave59; Sep 16, 2009 at 7:25 AM.
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Old Sep 16, 2009, 9:17 AM   #336
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JimC

Odd. Actually I was using P mode not M mode. I had tried M once and did not yet understand how to change the shutter while in M mode so I quickly went back to P mode and allowed the camera to choose the shutter and aperature.

I did change the ISO to 400 for that shot, and I changed the EV to +1. I believe I did that because the image appeared less dark on the lcd screen and more correct in my eye at the time. But you see I was outside in the very bright daylight and it was difficult to discern how the image really looked from the lcd. So I would ask about that. When in the bright daylight how do I determine when I have it right by looking at the image on the LCD?
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Old Sep 16, 2009, 9:38 AM   #337
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Interesting. Several EXIF readers I checked it with show Manual Exposure. It may be the way the camera is reporting it if you change any settings.

In any event, regardless of what mode you were using (Manual Exposure or Programmed Auto), a +EV reading/setting is going to result in a brighter exposure than the camera metered (hence, more blown highlights with loss of detail in the "hot spots", horses lighter than they should have been, etc.).

It's very common for a camera's metering to expose a darker subject (as in those horses) brighter than it should. Using the defaults would have probably resulted in a bit of overexposure (but, nowhere near as bad as you got by using a +1 EV setting). For that type of subject (darker horses taking up much of the frame), you can usually expect overexposure from many cameras (especially using Center Weighted Metering, which gives more weight to the center of the frame). So, a -EV setting is often needed for best results.


You'll often see them same thing indoors with stage lighting (as a subject lit by stage lighting is usually much brighter than the rest of the scene and many cameras will give far too much weight to the darker areas, resulting in overexposure of your primary subject). Because the overexposure is usually caused by the camera selecting a slower shutter speed, you'll tend to have more problems from subject movement, too (more blur from subject movement because shutter speeds are too slow to freeze much action).

For lighter subjects (or backlit subjects), you'll often see the opposite issue (subjects exposed too dark). That's when a +EV setting can come in handy, depending on a camera's metering behavior.

So, it's a good idea to review your images and adjust exposure as needed.

As you become more accustomed to your camera's metering behavior, you will have a better "feel" for when you may need to use Exposure Compensation to expose darker or brighter than the camera metered. Any camera model takes some getting used to (and metering behavior tends to vary a lot between brands/models).

As for the LCD, some cameras have more accurate representation of color/brightness compared to others. But, as a general rule, it can be tough to judge exposure on many of them (especially in a variety of lighting conditions).

Your camera model is equipped with a Histogram feature that can help out in that area, giving you a graphic representation of how it exposed a scene. If you press the DISP button on your control pad when in playback mode, you can toggle between the different display modes using the up or down buttons. One of them will show you the Histogram on top of the image you are viewing.

Here's an article discussing Histograms you may find useful:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...stograms.shtml
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Old Sep 16, 2009, 11:09 AM   #338
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All
  1. Interesting lesson learned. I am brand new to using forums, etc. The reason that my uploaded picture was missing the EXIF info originally was due to how I uploaded, not due to the editing software. This last time I made sure to use the fully functional reply window and used the attachment option from there. The information was retained correctly this way. The first uploads I did were actually links to an album on this site where I had uploaded the pictures. Now we know for next time.
  2. With the overexposed pictures, will they darken up a little with an editing software and look OK?
  3. Setting aside the overexposure issue, what did you think about the action stopping ability with this point and shoot?
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Old Sep 16, 2009, 11:24 AM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritap View Post
AllInteresting lesson learned. I am brand new to using forums, etc. The reason that my uploaded picture was missing the EXIF info originally was due to how I uploaded, not due to the editing software. This last time I made sure to use the fully functional reply window and used the attachment option from there. The information was retained correctly this way. The first uploads I did were actually links to an album on this site where I had uploaded the pictures. Now we know for next time.
That's not uncommon (for photo hosting sites to strip out the EXIF metadata, in order to save a bit of storage space).

Quote:
With the overexposed pictures, will they darken up a little with an editing software and look OK?
Well... the some of the highlights are blown (maxed out brightness levels with no detail left), so you're not going to be able to recover that detail. But, you could make some areas look better with an editor.

Quote:
Setting aside the overexposure issue, what did you think about the action stopping ability with this point and shoot?
Your settings didn't really lend themselves well to action (i.e., aperture of f/9 for the horse photos, which is very dim). You'd want faster shutter speeds to freeze action. If you would have used the camera's defaults instead of +1 EV, the camera would have probably used shutter speeds roughly twice as fast as being used in that last sample (which was only 1/125 second -- a bit on the slow side for freezing any action). But, even 1/250 second would have been on the slow side. A -EV setting would give you an even darker exposure (and probably would have brought shutter speeds up to a more acceptable level).

I'd try the Sports mode with it and see what you get (it may lean towards using a wider aperture setting, so that you'd get faster shutter speeds for a given lighting and ISO speed). Unfortunately, it looks like the H20 is missing modes like Aperture Priority (where you can set the f/stop and the camera selects the appropriate shutter speed). So, you'd need to try the scene modes and see how they behave, or go Manual Exposure and open up your Aperture more (lower f/stop numbers) to let in more light so you'll get faster shutter speeds for a given lighting and ISO speed.

I can't see the settings used for the indoor circus photos. But, as a general rule, you'll want a dSLR model using a bright lens (not a kit lens) for indoor photos without a flash for best results (because you'll typically need very high ISO speeds and a lens with wider available apertures in order to freeze action indoors without a flash).
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Old Sep 17, 2009, 7:51 PM   #340
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Your personal Camera Check List:

Good Morning, Folks-

Our discussion this morning is about developing some good camera habits. Please keep in mind that your camera, be it a DSLR type camera, or a super zoom camera retains in memory some of the settings you last used. So, the first time you use your camera each day it is important to reset your camera for the the photo situation that you face next. Personally, I do it every time I pull the camera out of the camera bag. A simple one minute check can save the next photos that you want to take quite easily.

Here is what I quickly check, each time I reach for my camera:

ISO setting
WB or White Balance setting
EV or Exposure Compensation setting
Where the camera’s Mode Selector is set
Battery Status

Those five are the must items. You may also want to check:

Where the camera is set to focus
The Focusing Mode, such as Single, Continuous, Automatic and Predictive
The camera’s Metering Mode
If you are going to shoot any action photos, consider the shutter speed used by the camera.

If you get into that small and simple habit, it will save you from some missed, screwed-up, or scratch your head type photos. There are just 5 items that can be checked in less than 1 minute and I guarantee you, by checking those items, you will be more at peace, and a happy camper.

Have a great day.

Sarah Joyce
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