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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:14 PM   #141
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Jim C, would that lens have IS? I don't see it mentioned...
It would with a Sony dSLR (since their models have stabilization built into the camera body). It would not be stabilized on a Canon or Nikon body.

For indoor use trying to capture rapidly moving subjects, stabilization isn't as important, because you need faster shutter speeds to freeze action. For lower light use (where you're trying to time how you're taking the photos for the least subject movement because of very slow shutter speeds; and/or taking photos of stationary subjects, stabilization can help).
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:14 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by littlejohn View Post
Remember some camera have IS in the body...if so, its not needed in the lens..sony has in body IS..advantage you can use older (used) non IS lens providing that they fit the mount of course...
yes, that's why I was leaning toward the Sony at one point, but everything else seems to point toward the Canon T1i...
every thing you look at has at least one major flaw, doesn't it?! Not a little, unimportant flaw, but a major flaw! LOL
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:16 PM   #143
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It would with a Sony dSLR (since their models have stabilization built into the camera body). It would not be stabilized on a Canon or Nikon body.

For indoor use trying to capture rapidly subject movement, stabilization isn't as important. For lower light use (where you're trying to time the photos for the least subject movement because of very slow shutter speeds; and/or taking photos of stationary subjects, stabilization can help).

Well, it is hard for me to know whether the IS I am used to with the P&S (Nikon L14) is similar to what we are talking about on the dSLRs, but I can say that I NEED it with the P&S. Seems like low light is a frequent situation for me. Not necessarily a rapidly moving subject...

SOO, this brings me to the question, is there a lens like you recommended but WITH IS? Forget the budget for now
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:25 PM   #144
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If you want to "forget the budget", there are lots of options. ;-)

But, AFAIK, neither Nikon or Canon offer a single lens solution in a brighter lens offering approximately the same zoom range you have with your Nikon Coolpix L14 (equivalent to the same angle of view you'd have using a 38-114mm on a 35mm camera) if you want a stabilized solution.

Both Nikon and Canon offer 24-70mm f/2.8 lenses. But, they're not stabilized. You'd need to go with wider or longer zooms to get stabilization in an f/2.8 zoom from what I can see of current zoom lens listings.
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:26 PM   #145
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yes, that's why I was leaning toward the Sony at one point, but everything else seems to point toward the Canon T1i...
every thing you look at has at least one major flaw, doesn't it?! Not a little, unimportant flaw, but a major flaw! LOL
Let's take sports out of it for a second. And let's go back to what you want to take photos of - indoors of family stuff. I would suggest for those needs a 24-70 2.8 is probably not a great solution as a lens. For several reasons:

1) f2.8 often won't be bright enough indoors - especially if your subject isn't completely motionless. So often we want to capture 'moments' not posed shots. People move slightly during those moments. At f2.8 that often leads to blurry shots - even at high ISOs. And those high ISOs lead to noise. So, in my experience, f2.8 is a poor solution for indoor family style shots.

2) 24mm focal length on an aps-c sensor. In smaller rooms you might not be able to get the wide shots you really want. That's why 17 or 18mm is a better choice - a 17mm lens has the same field of view as a 27mm lens would on a film SLR.

3) DOF - as mentioned, wide apertures mean shallow DOF. Sometimes you actually want several people in focus and not just one.

This is the reason why I recommend external flash as the solution. You can bounce the flash and have natural looking photos - don't have to worry about subjects being blurry because of movement, don't have to shoot at high ISOs, don't have to be constrained by shallow DOF.

A standard kit lens and external flash will get you MUCH better results for general indoor picture taking of family situations. You can add a wide aperture lens (1.8 or 1.4 prime) down the road to get shallow-DOF. But out of the gate you'll get much more bang for the buck with an external flash.

Here are some photos that illustrate what I'm talking about. These are standard family type shots - made possible by external flash. I love available light shots but I think a 24-70 2.8 lens is the wrong solution.

















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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:27 PM   #146
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the new Canon 18-135 IS would cover approximately 29-215ish and comes with IS.
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:34 PM   #147
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So, it sounds like I really need about 3 different cameras LOL
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:36 PM   #148
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the new Canon 18-135 IS would cover approximately 29-215ish and comes with IS.
I'm assuming that it is a good lens, if you are mentioning it...just for kicks, what is the aperture on that one?
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:37 PM   #149
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the new Canon 18-135 IS would cover approximately 29-215ish and comes with IS.
For general use, great. But. with a widest available aperture of f/5.6 if you zoom in much, it's not going to be very usable for indoor use without a flash (for example, taking the Gymnastics photos the OP wants a camera for), since your shutter speeds are going to be too slow at f/5.6 to freeze much in the way of subject movement,
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 2:41 PM   #150
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So, it sounds like I really need about 3 different cameras LOL
Actually - any DSLR with kit lens and external flash will get you good indoors shots. No need for three cameras. Now, Canon, Nikon and Sony all have good flash systems. So that's good.

With the kit lenses you have image stabilization which you want in all 3 systems.

I think the curve-ball was the discussion of having an f2.8 as a walk-around. Without the external flash it's not going to solve your needs. And that curveball led into the anti-shake discussion. Even though I have f2.8 lenses -you want to know how many times I use them for my family shots? ZERO. Why? Because I think they're a poor tool for the job for the reasons I stated. A lot in photography is about using the right tool for the job. A 24-70 2.8 without flash just isn't the best tool and you'll spend a lot of money to get less quality shots than you could get with flash and a kit lens.
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