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Old Oct 15, 2009, 12:18 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by javacleve View Post
Are you all night owls, too, or are you on the west coast?!
it 10:22 here..
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 12:24 AM   #192
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It's 1:23 am here, so I am off to bed...but I think the next step is to check out a camera store and handle all the models with ISO 3200 capabilities, and then go from there...the next question being which lens...I like Jim's recommendation from a budget perspective, although not having the IS may be its downfall, unless I go with the Sony line and have IS in body (which makes a strong case for Sony, to me). I know it won't be "enough" for all situations, but as he said, it will at least be as good as what I have (as far as zoom) with an obviously better image.
thank you all for your input!!!!!
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 10:59 AM   #193
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Good for you...now git going before you change your mind. But expect to be confused at the store too. Just take what you've learned here and DON'T let the salesman waiver your thoughts...most don't know as much as you do now...
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 5:10 PM   #194
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OK, now I'm really confused...I started making that spreadsheet so I was going back through all these threads and reviews to take notes...one of the links had this photo; the photographer is shooting
"5D, 70-200 f/4L, ISO 3200, 1/160, f/4 and I may have bumped it up in ACR"
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=130105&page=3
He said this is a typical gym for lighting. This is not f2.8 and it looks darn good to me...(although he did say the gym is small so he is probably relatively close to the action at least)
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 5:12 PM   #195
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and another one from that same thread,
"Here's a shot taken in our gym by the gal with the Nikon D80 using the Nikkor 18-200/3.5-5.7 DX VR lens. Pretty darn nice. Especially when you compare it to what I'm getting right now. And when I asked what she was shooting, she didn't know the aperature range of the lens, and is shooting in "H1" which is 3200ISO and sports mode"
She is using ISO 3200 but f3.5-5.7???!! with a D80???!
I'd be happy with shots like these!
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 5:34 PM   #196
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javacleve-

As JohnG has stated, high ISO shooting is an acquired skill. At the least, I take 4 to 5X more photos than I save at ISO 3200. So the real "keepers" probably represent 20% or less of what you shot that day.

I have the Nikon 18-200mmVR lens. At its wide angle end it is an F 3.5 lens and zoomed out the aperture falls to F 5.6. It is a good but not great lens in my opinion.

The Nikon D-90 has much better high ISO shooting capabilities that the D-80 model. And as I mentioned previously we expect the new Pentax KX to have a high ISO capability similar to the Nikon D-90.

Please keep in mind as well that JohnG produces great looking sports photo on a regular basis. However, he is using DSLR camera bodies and lenses much farther up the camera food chain that the entry level DSLR cameras and those one or two step up from entry level that we are discussing here.

So you have compare apples with apples to be able to make a good judgement. Or if you want to consider upgrading in the camera food chain, then you begin the apples versus oranges comparison, to determine what "buying up" will give you.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 5:36 PM   #197
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to be perfectly honest, getting action shots with a walkaround 18-200 is a crapshoot. sure, you will get lucky now and again. but more often than not, the stars will not align. they do not have the light gathering ability, nor do they focus accurate or fast enough.

the 70-200 f4 though is a strong lens. and with high enough iso (3200) u can make it work indoors. so not that it can't do well, its just that a 2.8 will do better and more flexible.
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 5:44 PM   #198
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OK - looking at the two images you brought over - to my eyes there's an enormous difference in quality. Not surprising. The 5d is a full frame camera and has great high ISO performance. The photo is also exposed properly. The other photo is underexposed.

Now - back to the first image - most of the body is relatively still - the feet are moving and that's where you see blur. At 1/160 you can get some shots - again where there's a pose or a strait jump. But the more motion the less likely the shot will turn out.

Of course - when I look at the exif on the 2nd image - that person is a little mistaken. That shot was taken with a D200 at aperture f1.8 1/2500. Quite a bit different than 6.3. That's also a tremendously bright gym. The first photo is much more indicative of the type of gym you'd be shooting in.
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 6:08 PM   #199
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Thanks, JohnG-

For setting the EXIF data straight. That makes a whole lot of difference.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 11:20 PM   #200
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Quote:
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Now - back to the first image - most of the body is relatively still - the feet are moving and that's where you see blur. At 1/160 you can get some shots - again where there's a pose or a strait jump. But the more motion the less likely the shot will turn out.
That what I noticed as well...it seems with that shot timing was everything...

(thanks for pointing it out..and confirming my inexperienced guess..)
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