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Old Oct 17, 2009, 10:30 PM   #241
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Someone else took this one and gave me the CD, it doesn't have much data but it says flash on and the camera model Kodak Z740zoom...it definitely looks better than my L14 at least; granted she's not moving much but the noise and brightness overall looks better
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Old Oct 17, 2009, 10:44 PM   #242
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Every single picture I have looked at on my computer says the Flash was ON, so I think that something is wrong there (and the number is above 0). I mean, even outdoor photos...sometimes I do use fill flash, but not always!
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 8:33 AM   #243
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I could certainly live with the Oly results, based on this comparison at least (I'm sure that it will vary with real life conditions)
If you're going to spend that much on a camera, I'd urge you to go with a model with better ISO 3200 performance, as I've already mentioned in previous posts. In addition to the review sites already mentioned, here's another comparison that shows the E620 you're looking at.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ni...00/noise.shtml

You'll see D90 crops on a separate page (click on the links for different tests at the top and bottom of the page)

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ni...e_vs_D90.shtml

Also, keep in mind that the default sharpening on the Oly is a bit higher. You could bump up sharpness settings in the other cameras if desired.

Again, look at the shadow areas when comparing images (as these 100% crops do). That's where you'll see the most loss of detail (from either noise or noise reduction). So, if you have a slightly underexposed face (because of differences in light angle, etc.), you can get a lot more noise and loss of detail in "real world" use (and even if you use third party noise reduction tools on the higher noise Oly images shooting at ISO 3200, I would not expect to get the same amount of detail as you're seeing from cameras using a Sony 12MP CMOS Sensor after noise removal).

To repeat my earlier suggestions, I'd go with a newer model using a Sony 12MP CMOS Sensor in the Nikon or Sony lineup. The Nikon D5000, D90 and D300s all use later generations of Sony's 12MP CMOS Sensor.choices (but, the D300s is going to be too far over budget, and you'd have more lens restrictions with the D5000). Even without taking noise reduction and jpeg processing into consideration, models using a Sony 12MP CMOS sensor will have lower noise at higher ISO speeds if you look at converted raw images using the same raw converter, as compared to the other under $1K models you're looking at. From samples I've seen so far, the new Sony A500 is going to be a winner at higher ISO speeds, too (it's using a newer generation of Sony's 12MP CMOS Sensor, combined with more advanced noise reduction algorithms compared to previous Sony models)

In the Nikon lineup, your best bet would probably be the D90 on an under $1K budget. That way, you could take advantage of more lenses on the used market that don't have focus motors built in (as the D5000 won't allow Autofocus unless the lens you use has a built in focus motor). IOW, spend a little more on the body for more lens choices (less expensive used f/2.8 zooms, brighter primes, etc.).

In the Canon lineup, I'd stick with the T1i or better (the models below it don't offer ISO 3200, and you're going to want to use ISO 3200 with a zoom lens in typical gym lighting).

IOW, you're going to want ISO 3200 for best results (so that you can get a higher percentage of keepers without blur from subject movement). So, I'd suggest spending a bit more on a body that gives you better results at ISO 3200.
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 4:33 PM   #244
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If you're going to spend that much on a camera, I'd urge you to go with a model with better ISO 3200 performance, as I've already mentioned in previous posts. In addition to the review sites already mentioned, here's another comparison that shows the E620 you're looking at.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ni...00/noise.shtml

You'll see D90 crops on a separate page (click on the links for different tests at the top and bottom of the page)

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ni...e_vs_D90.shtml

Also, keep in mind that the default sharpening on the Oly is a bit higher. You could bump up sharpness settings in the other cameras if desired.

Again, look at the shadow areas when comparing images (as these 100% crops do). That's where you'll see the most loss of detail (from either noise or noise reduction). So, if you have a slightly underexposed face (because of differences in light angle, etc.), you can get a lot more noise and loss of detail in "real world" use (and even if you use third party noise reduction tools on the higher noise Oly images shooting at ISO 3200, I would not expect to get the same amount of detail as you're seeing from cameras using a Sony 12MP CMOS Sensor after noise removal).

To repeat my earlier suggestions, I'd go with a newer model using a Sony 12MP CMOS Sensor in the Nikon or Sony lineup. The Nikon D5000, D90 and D300s all use later generations of Sony's 12MP CMOS Sensor.choices (but, the D300s is going to be too far over budget, and you'd have more lens restrictions with the D5000). Even without taking noise reduction and jpeg processing into consideration, models using a Sony 12MP CMOS sensor will have lower noise at higher ISO speeds if you look at converted raw images using the same raw converter, as compared to the other under $1K models you're looking at. From samples I've seen so far, the new Sony A500 is going to be a winner at higher ISO speeds, too (it's using a newer generation of Sony's 12MP CMOS Sensor, combined with more advanced noise reduction algorithms compared to previous Sony models)

In the Nikon lineup, your best bet would probably be the D90 on an under $1K budget. That way, you could take advantage of more lenses on the used market that don't have focus motors built in (as the D5000 won't allow Autofocus unless the lens you use has a built in focus motor). IOW, spend a little more on the body for more lens choices (less expensive used f/2.8 zooms, brighter primes, etc.).

In the Canon lineup, I'd stick with the T1i or better (the models below it don't offer ISO 3200, and you're going to want to use ISO 3200 with a zoom lens in typical gym lighting).

IOW, you're going to want ISO 3200 for best results (so that you can get a higher percentage of keepers without blur from subject movement). So, I'd suggest spending a bit more on a body that gives you better results at ISO 3200.

Thank you for repeating your suggestions, as my head is crammed with so much information right now it is hard to keep straight. I do understand what you are saying about the ISO 3200; it is just very hard to compare those 100% crops vs the actual prints that I will be getting.
I am having to weigh that against the size of the camera (ie, will I actually USE it). The D90 was a behemoth to me!
The price is a consideration but not as big of one (the Oly system is cheaper at first, coming with 2 lenses, and I already have lenses that I could use on it...admittedly, though, it would be made up for if I ever DO go for that wide aperture tele zoom).
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 5:10 PM   #245
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The price is a consideration but not as big of one (the Oly system is cheaper at first, coming with 2 lenses, and I already have lenses that I could use on it...admittedly, though, it would be made up for if I ever DO go for that wide aperture tele zoom).
AF Confirm Olympus OM Lens to Canon EOS Adapter

You can hang you OM lenses on just about anything. There's no real advantage to getting an Olympus dSLR because you have Olympus OM lenses.
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 7:21 PM   #246
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AF Confirm Olympus OM Lens to Canon EOS Adapter

You can hang you OM lenses on just about anything. There's no real advantage to getting an Olympus dSLR because you have Olympus OM lenses.
I'm going to agree on this one. I love my Oly, but indoor sports are NOT its thing. Low light autofocus struggles and there are others better at high ISO image quality. If indoor sports are a main consideration, especially poorly lit HS gyms, there are better choices.

Greg
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 8:41 PM   #247
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I'm going to agree on this one. I love my Oly, but indoor sports are NOT its thing. Low light autofocus struggles and there are others better at high ISO image quality. If indoor sports are a main consideration, especially poorly lit HS gyms, there are better choices.

Greg
Hi,

I try to stay out of these discussions relative to "which camera should I buy posts" as there are people more qualified than I who can better guide you. Having said that I, I can't help but give you my 02cents as we all work hard for the money we earn and I would hate to see you invest in a system that simply isn't designed for your particular application.

I own an Olympus E-30 camera and regularly use it with the 50-200mm ED lens. The AF system is more sophisticated than the one found in the E-620 and yet, I have a lot of problems capturing clear images of my grandaughter at her gymnastics classes and competitions. The classes are typically held in large gymnasiums with weak lighting and no flashes are allowed. To make matters worse, parents and spectators aren't allowed very close to the floor. The AF system in my E-30 struggles to focus the lens quickly and accurately under these conditions.

I do a lot of low light sunrise/sunset shots of landscapes, waterscapes, etc. Typically static subjects and I love the output the E-30 renders. But if I wanted to capture that photo of a lifetime of my grand daughter performing a gymnastics move, I wouldn't be using my E-30.

Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Zig
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 9:53 PM   #248
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Hi,

I try to stay out of these discussions relative to "which camera should I buy posts" as there are people more qualified than I who can better guide you. Having said that I, I can't help but give you my 02cents as we all work hard for the money we earn and I would hate to see you invest in a system that simply isn't designed for your particular application.

I own an Olympus E-30 camera and regularly use it with the 50-200mm ED lens. The AF system is more sophisticated than the one found in the E-620 and yet, I have a lot of problems capturing clear images of my grandaughter at her gymnastics classes and competitions. The classes are typically held in large gymnasiums with weak lighting and no flashes are allowed. To make matters worse, parents and spectators aren't allowed very close to the floor. The AF system in my E-30 struggles to focus the lens quickly and accurately under these conditions.

I do a lot of low light sunrise/sunset shots of landscapes, waterscapes, etc. Typically static subjects and I love the output the E-30 renders. But if I wanted to capture that photo of a lifetime of my grand daughter performing a gymnastics move, I wouldn't be using my E-30.

Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Zig
Thank you, Zig! You, of course, confirm what everyone else in the world is trying to tell me I appreciate the fact that you've had the experience, that means a lot! I am not sure our gym has poor lighting (it seems better than my neice's, for example, and there is some natural light if it's daytime), but I am sure there will be situations in which that is the case.
It's just all coming down to the fact that my hopes to find a small system are being crushed; so I either have to get used to the idea of having a big camera, or I have to give up the idea of taking gymnastics photos.
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 9:54 PM   #249
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AF Confirm Olympus OM Lens to Canon EOS Adapter

You can hang you OM lenses on just about anything. There's no real advantage to getting an Olympus dSLR because you have Olympus OM lenses.
well, that helps! I did not know that!
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 10:12 PM   #250
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I think your choices are narrowing down to the Canon T1i and ... well ... the T1i.

How do you feel about that?
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