Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > What Camera Should I Buy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Oct 12, 2009, 8:56 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

javacleve-

We have been through the "to PP or not" argument before. Bradley and I pay our own money for these DSLR cameras, nobody is out there underwriting our effort. However, if there are any potential contributors out there, we would love to discuss the issue with you, as long as we can retain our "no bias" outlook.

So here is what I am going to do, javacleve, I have no DSLR camera that I am pushing. There is no brand bias in this thread. Instead, I will PP each and every photo on a photo by photo basis, to get the very best results from each and every photo. DSLR cameras are definitely not point & shoot cameras. The camera manufacturers making DSLR cameras expect the DSLR users to be doing some PP of each and every photo.

Yes, we, Bradley and I, are here to help you in every way possible. However, we also have the expectation that you also want to progressively improve your skills as a photographer, as well, and that includes learning post processing and the basic photographic skills required to get great DSLR level photos.

Sarah Joyce
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 9:01 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 350
Default

Sarah, I understand what you are saying (and appreciate everything you do here, already I see it!)...but, it's not about not wanting to improve my skills and learn. It's about comparing apples to apples, to me. It's also about what is practical. I will not have the time to fiddle with each and every photo that I want to print. I already do some basic PP--adjust contrast, or color balance, for example. But if it takes too much messing around, then it really isn't practical for the hundreds of photos I take!

Not wanting to get into another argument again, just stating my opinion and what I'd like to see.
javacleve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 9:04 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hards80 View Post
Another 2 cameras to keep in mind

The Canon XSi, its more expensive than the aforementioned XS. But the introduction of the T1i has brought its price down to the reasonable 500$ mark. The 12mp sensor in the XSi is one of Canon's better sensor's and will resolve detail on par with its more expensive 15mp brethren. I preferred the ergonomics of this camera over the XS, personally.

Another one not mentioned yet is the Panasonic G1. The introduction of the GH1 and the subsequent GF1 have brought down the price of this little camera, as well as putting a number of them on the used market. For those wanting to upgrade from a P&S and are put off by the bulk of DSLRs would be wise to check into this kit. The EVF on it is 100% and very large (meaning its not a true slr). And the kit lens that comes with it is very good quality.
Well I have a whole 'nother thread devoted to the xsi My main concern was how it did in low light, though...
javacleve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 9:34 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

Well javacleve-

When each of us begin a thread, we establish certain parameters right up front. Regarding post processing, we guess the most concise thing we can say to you is this: PP is a personal choice that each of us, as photographers, must make for ourselves.

We gave you, javacleve, our unbending assurance that we would give you the very best image quality out of each and every photo that we post, now and in the future, if it is one of our images, we will post process it to get you the very best image. I am 74 years old today, and have been a professional photographer for more than 50+ years. We do not intend to cheat in any way at all! we will devote our time and effort to each and every one of our images. That assures you of uniform and consistent photo or image quality.

If you want photos without post processing, then please purchase a bunch of DSLR cameras and begin your own thread. Bradley and do not really want to be badgered, coerced, or forced by any Forum participant who has made absolutely no investment in anything at all.

We, Bradley and I, are here to help, and we believe with almost 10,000 posts already published, we have a darned good record of helping folks and asking for nothing at all in return. This Forum's success is based on a cadre of folks who are willing to make a personal investment of time and money in attempting to help other fellow photographers while being fair and expressing no particular brand name bias.

Sarah Joyce

Last edited by mtclimber; Oct 12, 2009 at 9:37 PM.
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 9:37 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtclimber View Post
Well javacleve-

When each of us begin a thread, we establish certain parameters right up front. Regarding post processing, we guess the most concise thing we can say to you is this: PP is a personal choice that each of us, as photographers, must make for ourselves.

We gave you, javacleve, our unbending assurance that we would give you the very best image quality out of each and every photo that we post, now and in the future, if it is one of our images, we will post process it to get you the very best image. I am 74 years old today, and have been a professional photographer for more than 50+ years. We do not intend to cheat in any way at all! we will devote our time and effort to each and every one of our images. That assures you of uniform and consistent photo or image quality.

If you want photos without post processing, then please purchase a bunch of DSLR cameras and begin your own thread. Bradley and do not really want to be badgered, coerced, or forced by any Forum participant who has made absolutely no investment in anything at all.

We, Bradley and I, are here to help, and we believe with almost 10,000 posts already published, we have a darned good record of helping folks and asking for nothing at all in return.

Sarah Joyce

This Forum's success is based on a cadre of folks who are willing to make a personal investment of time and money in attempting to help other fellow photographers while be fair and expressing no particular brand name bias.

whoa, back up the truck! I am not badgering or coercing anyone into anything here! Is it not acceptable to give an opinion? or to clarify where I was coming from? That's all I was doing! No need to be defensive, really...
I asked for help in choosing a camera, and explained why I asked about the PP...to tell me to purchase a bunch of SLR's because I'd personally like to see examples without PP is totally not in keeping with the spirit of the thread. You are certainly free to post whatever examples you'd like to post, and I am totally free to wonder how the camera performs without the PP.

Last edited by javacleve; Oct 12, 2009 at 9:39 PM.
javacleve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 9:40 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 350
Default

I will exit "your" thread, now Sarah, as I obviously am not following the guidelines you wanted for it.
javacleve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 9:55 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

No, javacleve-

It is very unfortunate to see you go, as we began this thread with you in mind. However, this is a discussion Forum. And believe us, we have been here for more than a few years. So we have seen just about everything.

It is our impression, that rather than discussing the issues, that you desire to drive the issues. If we are unfortunately incorrect in making that assumption, then please correct us, and let get back to the discussion phase.

We offered you some very real and workable options. It seems like this flare up has all taken place over PP. Now honestly, that is pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

We feel that we want to serve and help as many folks as possible, and we are sincerely hoping that you will re-think your position. You have not been accused or threatened in any way at all.

We are sincerely attempting to get a new thread under way and we have had a great response from a wide range of people. We sincerely believe that everyone has something to contribute, that will assist in everyone's photographic learning process.

Hiro's photo were great. He managed to get those great photos from a rather inexpensive, non IS equipped, DSLR camera. We tip our hat to Hiro. That is exactly the synergistic effect we were hoping that would occur in this brand new thread.

Sarah Joyce
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 10:06 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by javacleve View Post
Sarah, I understand what you are saying (and appreciate everything you do here, already I see it!)...but, it's not about not wanting to improve my skills and learn. It's about comparing apples to apples, to me. It's also about what is practical. I will not have the time to fiddle with each and every photo that I want to print. I already do some basic PP--adjust contrast, or color balance, for example. But if it takes too much messing around, then it really isn't practical for the hundreds of photos I take!

Not wanting to get into another argument again, just stating my opinion and what I'd like to see.

FWIW...I 've not done any PP yet..I am spending enough time just getting to know the cameras, settings etc.

But I see a couple of things here. To get good pictures from a camera out of the box, some adjustments have to be made. Each camera will have different adjustments that will appeal your individual tastes. ie; for me tweaking the a230, change the quality immensely.

To get excellent pictures, further adjustments will have to be made to the original 'good' pic.

If you consider the film world...PP was done by the individual photo shop..we didn't see it. Now we have the option to produce a pic the way we would like it to be rather than the shop.

One thing that has worked for me is to select one that I want to try. Take pics and look at pics from others here see if i can replicate them. If not 'ask' Tullio has the Sony A200..he suggested adjustments and i used them on the A230 with positive results. He and I like the same type of pic..sharpness etc...so it was a good match for me.
littlejohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 10:12 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

Thanks for an excellent reply, littlejohn-

Yes, PP is subjective, but the end desire of anyone doing PP is to achieve a better image.

Sarah Joyce
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 10:13 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
hiro1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 262
Default

Thanks for your kind words Sarah. Of course, I had to take several shots for each subject though. At least one of each turned out to be usable.

Anyway, I often do some post processing on most of my images. After resizing an image for posting, it usually loses some details. So, I apply unsharp mask. And sometimes I boost up contrast a bit. And that's pretty much what I know about post processing at the moment. I would like to know some more good technique though because I would like to start shooting in RAW soon.

- Hiro
hiro1963 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:28 AM.