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Old Dec 31, 2009, 5:33 AM   #91
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It still isn't 10 out of 10 is it? Even good companies make mistakes....but in this case...it seems 2 mistakes were made..the second being, B&H not being totally up front.

Lastly...call the lawyer..he'll take your money too and say 'ya we should have a case' but it ain't gonna mean you'll win...you have to PROVE that John was slandering..and by that you'd have to prove that he was wrong...and so far no one has...

Back to lawyers...in my work (road maintenance )I've been sued many times...every client was told they has a case..every client paid $$$...and every client lost...and not ONE when to court.....says a lot about lawyers doesn't it???
First, who's ratings are higher in the camera gear business?

Second, You can say what you want and I doubt I'd of posted a thing. Remove the "Senior Member" and install "Moderator" under your name and I'd expect different behavior.

Third, Who said my goal was to win in court. You don't need to win to prove a point. John represents "Internet Brands" now. He's not like you and I.

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Old Dec 31, 2009, 5:39 AM   #92
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I fail to see why that's John's concern...perhaps B&H should have been concerned tho...
Perhaps "Steves Digicams/Internet Brands" should be concerned. I consider it a moderator that needs moderation.

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Old Dec 31, 2009, 9:05 AM   #93
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Exactly. To my own family, $60 is worth a lot. It's two tanks of gas. Or half a week's groceries. To real families, in today's harsh economy, every dollar counts. Every retailer is feeling it too. The smart retailers are being straight with their shoppers and catering to the repeat business. In lean times, it's your loyal base that will see you through. If you screw them over, they leave, taking your business with them. A simple blurb on the product description stating that a manual adjustment would apply the rebate while the web site was in the process of being updated would have taken care of the whole ballyhoo nicely. B&H's customers wouldn't have felt like they were being lied to or taken advantage of.
That is why I actually go talk to someone before I buy. The net is nice, but human interaction can get you a better deal at times. Because it is tough out there. I has hoping to get the 782 price for my brother, the 60 more for the t1i over the pentax k-x with the 2 lenses would have been great and not stretching his budget to much. That way he could have just borrow some of my lenses instead of having to buy lenses later down the line.

But if anyone looked clearly at the canon rebate. It state 899 for the 2 kit lenses. So if the retailer goes under the canon advertise it is up to the retailer. Since competition is big right now. To defend adorama, who did offer 824, when this thread started, did what they could do under their MAP agreement. Also the 782 price was for a out of stock item from amazon. I have never seen any retailer match a out of stock item. And for all we know amazon may not get any of those items in until after the rebate ends, and who knows if amazon will have that rebate after jan 16. So I do not see where the scam in the thread is honestly. BH followed canon guidelines for the rebate, adorama followed canon's MAP agreement. Amazon is Amazon, the have so much buying power, that they can ignore MAP agreements. Kinda like Walmart.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/Pro...treb_nov29.pdf

Last edited by shoturtle; Dec 31, 2009 at 9:08 AM.
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 9:40 AM   #94
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Perhaps "Steves Digicams/Internet Brands" should be concerned. I consider it a moderator that needs moderation.

Greg

Not really Greg - I'm not an employee in any way, shape or form. I've told the forums they can have the moderator title if they want it because it's more important that I speak my opinion. I'm on these forums to help other photographers. And even the best people or companies make mistakes. Sorry if my bluntness offends you. But, like me, you are free to voice your opinion. Again, all B&H had to do was explain the situation - but if you read the threads here, at dp review or fred miranda or elsewhere you'll see in the dozens of posts they made they never once answered the question like Adorama did. They did everything but.

As to your supposition about the rebate - read it yourself. ALL it states is that the consumer must buy the two items on the same receipt. Nothing about a special sku - which, of course is why Amazon didn't have to create one. Both B&H and Adorama indicated they needed to create a special sku because of their system constraints. That's fine. But only adorama stepped up and said the price was supposed to be manually adjusted and wasn't. In a week of discussions, B&H never said that once.

Forget about me who they might not care about. They have reps posting on boards and other buyers read the boards. Look at the thread here and DP Review and see where they offered an explanation of the price difference as a legitimate mistake. I and others have asked numerous times for B&H to state their case and if you read all the posts from B&H reps not in one of them do they answer that question.

You may not like my stance in this Greg. But if someone asks me a direct question here I will answer it directly. And, if I make a mistake I appologize. I appologized to Henry because things escalated and I was sorry for that. I owed him a personal apology. But the company on the other hand has done nothing to defend the notion that the price difference was anything but intentional.
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 9:46 AM   #95
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Shoturtle,
Adorama stated themselves the price of the kit was supposed to be discounted. Do you think if Canon required the discount be applied to MSRP Adorama wouldn't say that? Canon posts MSRP prices for all their products on their site - but unlike other manufacturers they don't require the gear to be sold at MSRP. Look at the terms and conditions not the advertisement. The terms and conditions state $200 rebate.

In fact, even B&H never said that - it's an easy enough statement to make. And this would all have gone away. See how few posts it took Adorama to explain the situation? Nice, tidy, upfront, honest and no avoidance of the questions.
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 10:01 AM   #96
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The price when the thread start was 824 as I posted, the mistake was 5 dollars.
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 10:11 AM   #97
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The price when the thread start was 824 as I posted, the mistake was 5 dollars.
Really - B&H had it for 824? I see you talking about Adorama there. No mention of 824. Nor when I look at any of the posts by B&H reps is a price of 824 mentioned.

Now, here's some additional info. Here's a post from another concerned party - when he writes that when he spoke to 2 different B&H reps, he was told the price difference was a 'convenience charge':
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=34034224

It should also be said that B&H is offering the kit at the lower price now and they have even decided to honor at least one person's complaint and refund money. So hats off to how they are now handling the issue:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=34105599

As you can see, a very happy customer over there.

So, was it an honest pricing mistake, a manufacturer requirement or a 'convenience charge'? Don't know. The issue is resolved, customers who call and request a refund are getting it, at new buyers get the benefit of the full rebate. FOr my part I'm not sure there's anything left on the subject. Already plenty written and readers can see public statements by both companies and concerned buyers and can make their own conclusions.

Have a happy new year everyone!
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 10:17 AM   #98
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Actually adorama has the t1i kit for 824 but out of stock. If you do a search of the T1i or t1i kit on amazon, they are out also. They only have vendors who has it, and their price is 799 for the one lens kit, and 1000 bucks for the 2 lens kit. Availability is not there. The canon promotion really worked.
Post number 5 of this thread. I was talking about adorama who you equally attack in you opening post.
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 10:20 AM   #99
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Also if BH does not have the price I want, I can go somewhere else. This a free market, and the web is free. It is easy to find the deal you are looking for.

I am still looking for the 782 price mention because that is a great deal. But still have not been able to find an seller with it instock with that price.
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 10:30 AM   #100
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Good sales people work to create a customer base that will follow them rather than the company they sell.
I'm not sure there's one right or wrong approach to this, but IMO sales people (and I am not a sales person) and anyone else representing a company should be working for the benefit of the company, not the individual. A sales person trying to establish his or her individual coterie of followers does so for his or her benefit at the expense of the company.

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Exactly. To my own family, $60 is worth a lot. It's two tanks of gas. Or half a week's groceries. To real families, in today's harsh economy, every dollar counts.
This is my PERSONAL opinion:
Seriously, we're talking about buying a camera, not penicillin. For every non-pro here this is a luxury, not a necessity and for most pros the camera you already own will continue to serve. I know a couple of real families in today's harsh economy who balance health care, rent and food every week, who had neither presents for the tree nor the tree, and who would be beyond grateful for the 800.00 or so the T1i 2-lens kit is selling for. I appreciate that this has become a passionate subject, but I think perspective is important too.

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Back to lawyers...in my work (road maintenance )I've been sued many times...every client was told they has a case..every client paid $$$...and every client lost...and not ONE when to court.....says a lot about lawyers doesn't it???
A Patient Dies, and Then the Anguish of Litigation - Doctor whose patient died served with a malpractice suit May 2004. $150,000 spent in pre-trial legal stuff and then, in Oct 2009, the plantiff's lawyers asked to withdraw conceding the case could not be won. One wonders what might have happened had those same lawyers told the plaintiffs this during 2004?
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