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Old Dec 30, 2009, 8:59 AM   #81
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Greg - the simple answer is it's about passing on information to others about a bad business practice. These companies had a product they sold for about $1010. Canon said - we're going to offer you an instant rebate of $200 off that product. Both companies still offered the product for $1010 but they wouldn't give customers the $200 rebate from Canon. Both companies said - no, ignore the fact we sell the product for $1010 - you have to buy the same product under a different sku. That sku is priced at $1060 or $1100 (or whatever). We'll give you the rebate on that product. But wait, the consumer says, you are selling the exact same product for $60 less I don't care what the vendor sku # is - they're the same manufacturer sku so I want to buy the lower priced one and get the instant rebate on that.

In this case the 'product' happens to consist of 2 items.

It's like you going to a car dealership and the manufacturer is offering $2000 rebate on a model. You go to the dealership and see a black car you like with a sticker of $20,000. The dealership says - no, you can't get the $2000 rebate on that car you have to buy this car over here. The car they point you to is exactly the same model, every feature is exactly the same. But the sticker price is $21,000. They tell you they will only give you the $2000 manufacturer rebate on the $21,000 car even though it's exactly the same as the $20,000 car.

That is essentially what was happening to the consumers who might be trying to buy from these stores. And it's a practice other consumers should be aware of. And, guess what? Adorama saw all the upset customers on the internet forums and said "we have a problem we need to fix" and they fixed it. B&H followed suit.
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Old Dec 30, 2009, 9:11 AM   #82
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....Both companies still offered the product for $1010 but they wouldn't give customers the $200 rebate from Canon. .........Adorama saw all the upset customers on the internet forums and said "we have a problem we need to fix" and they fixed it. B&H followed suit.
Almost - except that there was always supposed to have been a manual adjustment on the price of any kits ordered, while we waited for the engineers to carry out a fix on the system to enable us to offer a BOGO rebate automatically - as opposed to a %age rebate.
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Old Dec 30, 2009, 9:43 AM   #83
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Almost - except that there was always supposed to have been a manual adjustment on the price of any kits ordered,
And in the end, that is the difference between how Adorama approached this issue vs. B&H. Adorama said it's a pricing mistake and we'll fix it. B&H has never indicated it was a mistake - instead they argued the math was incorrect, or there were mail in rebates, etc... In all the responses in forums from B&H representatives, not in one single response in threads I've participated in did they state the price discrepancy is a mistake and absolutely the customer should be able to realize the full rebate off the price they were currently offering those two items at. For all we know, B&H prices dropped only because of a price match vs. Adorama. Not because they wanted to correct a pricing glitch that was keeping consumers from realizing the full rebate. Adorama when questioned about the price difference gave an answer as to why they were different. B&H was much more vocal in number of respones in threads here and elsewhere. But even though they posted more comments they never answered the question of why there was a price difference.

To some people, that may not matter. But I buy from and recommend vendors based not just on lowest price but business practices. I recommend to people to buy from Vendor A even though Vendor B has a slightly lower price because I think Vendor A has a reputation of solid, honest business practices. And, if I buy a $5000 DSLR in the next 2 years (and I might be) - it's highly likely it will cost the exact same at every vendor. But guess which vendor will get my business? The one that has a solid reputation and the one that has been honest with me and worked with me to resolve issues. So, it's not always about lowest possible cost. So, that's why the "WHY" is so important. That's why to me there's a difference between the car dealer saying "oh yeah, now that you mention it, both cars should be $20,000" vs "hey, you're getting a car for $19,000 you should be happy - ignore the fact if we let you apply the rebate to this same exact car in our lot you could get it for $18,000".
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Old Dec 30, 2009, 11:07 AM   #84
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First let me say that i appreciate the work that John did and Jim as well. Yes John's approach was rather 'blunt' but it was IMO, warranted since we got the 'sales' white wash answer.

No personal offence to henry as i don't even know him, but I've been exposed to enough salesmen in my career, to dislike a majority of them. Why? simply because they are never up front with you.

Once in a while you'll find someone who is actually interested in ensuring that 'you' the customer are satisfied and get answers. I've had sales persons actually recommend a competitor's product since it was better for my needs at the time...and you can bet your next dollar that when he recommended a new product to me from his company...I believed him.

Too often sales people tend to 'over' support the company they work for, forgetting that they are simply an employee with a number. Next week they could be working for a different company trying to sell to the same customer.

Good sales people work to create a customer base that will follow them rather than the company they sell.
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Old Dec 30, 2009, 3:06 PM   #85
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I see this morning a couple of lpaces are now offering the T1i body alone for $289 with free shipping. Here's a sample link:

http://skypointdigital.com/skypoint/...ucts_id=320978

This feels too good to be true, so it probably is. But the top level search at BING are providing a couple of web retailers with this deal. Anybody have insight to this? Any gotchas we're not seeing or any personal experiences gone wrong?
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Old Dec 30, 2009, 3:12 PM   #86
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I see this morning a couple of lpaces are now offering the T1i body alone for $289 with free shipping. Here's a sample link:

http://skypointdigital.com/skypoint/...ucts_id=320978

This feels too good to be true, so it probably is. But the top level search at BING are providing a couple of web retailers with this deal. Anybody have insight to this? Any gotchas we're not seeing or any personal experiences gone wrong?

if it sounds too good to be true, it is....

i would say its 6month rating of 0.42/10 would give you some idea of what you are dealing with

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/SkyPointDigital
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Old Dec 30, 2009, 8:33 PM   #87
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Greg - the simple answer is it's about passing on information to others about a bad business practice.
You've been blunt, so will I.

If I had a rating like:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store...ideo_Pro_Audio

and if a moderator on a forum used the word "Scam" in the title of a post and the name of my business in the the body of the text of that post I'd do MUCH more that do a bit of venting as Henry has done. You would, without a doubt, be contacted by my lawyer and I'd be looking to a deposition as to your viewpoints. I'd drag folks like "Internet Brands" into the mix to boot.

Your brashness in this is beyond what I consider professional. How does the rebate work? Must it be a special sku from the manufacturer? If so, how many of that sku will your company be allocated? What are other competitors doing with respect to the rebate? If you sell out, will you be able to get more? Nothing would do more damage to a company like a large scale retailer with the overhead of a storefront in high dollar NYC with PROFESSIONAL salespersons than being sold out of product without the possibility of getting more.

I'll venture a bit farther. How long does it take to update a site like B&H web presence and do so without error? Have you had to upkeep such a site and contend with angry customers due to a misplaced decimal point?

I don't know the answer to all the questions I posed. I'd venture you don't either. I have seen B&H drug through alot of mud for ethnic reasons and I may jump to their defense because of that, but they are not a scam store. They are reputable as a 9.7 something out of 10 indicates.

I won't try to trash your living. There are many families that are dependent on the company called B&H. I think a bit of thought before this thread was launched would maybe lead to a way of saying the same thing without raising the hackles of everone involved.

As a side note, I've seen Henry dig in to help dissatisfied customers on a regular basis. Its clear this has gotten personal for both of you. To bad, as I think in reality, both of you seem to be decent folk.

Greg

Last edited by fldspringer; Dec 30, 2009 at 9:39 PM.
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 12:27 AM   #88
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If you want to find the best price it is up to you to find it.
Exactly. To my own family, $60 is worth a lot. It's two tanks of gas. Or half a week's groceries. To real families, in today's harsh economy, every dollar counts. Every retailer is feeling it too. The smart retailers are being straight with their shoppers and catering to the repeat business. In lean times, it's your loyal base that will see you through. If you screw them over, they leave, taking your business with them. A simple blurb on the product description stating that a manual adjustment would apply the rebate while the web site was in the process of being updated would have taken care of the whole ballyhoo nicely. B&H's customers wouldn't have felt like they were being lied to or taken advantage of.
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 3:15 AM   #89
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If I had a rating like:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store...ideo_Pro_Audio

and if a moderator on a forum used the word "Scam" in the title of a post and the name of my business in the the body of the text of that post I'd do MUCH more that do a bit of venting as Henry has done. You would, without a doubt, be contacted by my lawyer

I don't know the answer to all the questions I posed. I'd venture you don't either. I have seen B&H drug through alot of mud for ethnic reasons and I may jump to their defense because of that, but they are not a scam store. They are reputable as a 9.7 something out of 10 indicates.
Greg

It still isn't 10 out of 10 is it? Even good companies make mistakes....but in this case...it seems 2 mistakes were made..the second being, B&H not being totally up front.

Lastly...call the lawyer..he'll take your money too and say 'ya we should have a case' but it ain't gonna mean you'll win...you have to PROVE that John was slandering..and by that you'd have to prove that he was wrong...and so far no one has...

Back to lawyers...in my work (road maintenance )I've been sued many times...every client was told they has a case..every client paid $$$...and every client lost...and not ONE when to court.....says a lot about lawyers doesn't it???
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 3:17 AM   #90
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There are many families that are dependent on the company called B&H. I think a bit of thought before this thread was launched would maybe lead to a way of saying the same thing without raising the hackles of everone involved.
Greg
I fail to see why that's John's concern...perhaps B&H should have been concerned tho...
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