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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:10 AM   #81
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TCav,

OP said yes to that question a while ago.
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:12 AM   #82
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I was thinking that the discussion was going toward times when the flash is not recommended. And we are at the what if point. And the edge goes to the 12800 iso camera's and fast primes.
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:15 AM   #83
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So, iankh, can you use flash or not?
Yes, I can often use a flash and have rarely not been able to. Of course I have to use a flash with my point and shoot, there's no alternative. There are times I had wished that I could take them without a flash, because I think the pictures would have looked better with ambient lighting.
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:15 AM   #84
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OP said yes to that question a while ago.
Then the Canon XSi + 18-55 IS + 270EX will do as well as anything else that's been mentioned.
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:19 AM   #85
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Yes, I can often use a flash, I do now with my point and shoot. The performers don't mind because it's in their best interest to get themselves in the paper.
Yes, he said he can "often use a flash". But, from my perspective, I'd rather have the ability to do both for more flexibility in more conditions (existing light shots without a flash, and shots with a flash).

So, I'd lean towards a kit that allows existing light shooting without a flash (with higher available ISO speeds than you'd have with that XSi), or with a flash (with the flexibility of a zoom lens for wider group shots, not to mention that he may want to use the camera for something other than just photos in bars, too) *if* budget allows.

That's the tough part (figuring out a way to do everything within an $850 or less budget, for more flexibility in more conditions).
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:19 AM   #86
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That is why it is number 2 choice. with with the metz 48 instead. More ability the then 270 and better reach.
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:24 AM   #87
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Yes, he said he can "often use a flash". But, from my perspective, I'd rather have the ability to do both for more flexibility in more conditions (existing light shots without a flash, and shots with a flash).

So, I'd lean towards a kit that allows existing light shooting without a flash, or with a flash (with the flexibility of a zoom lens for wider group shots, not to mention that he may want to use the camera for something other than just photos in bars, too) *if* budget allows.

That's the tough part (figuring out a way to do everything within an $850 or less budget, for more flexibility in more conditions).
For budget and added ability to do both flash and non flash, the pentex k-x out the box is the leader on my list. Factor out the prime lens, the K-x with 2 lens 18-55 and 55-200, with a very good flash like the metz 48 will put it in budget at 850, it will give him some room to get a decent bag for all the gear in the 50 buck range thus bringing the kit at the 900 budget.

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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:34 AM   #88
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Well.. I know I wouldn't consider the XSi for shooting in low light bars, since I'd want to take photos without a flash, too (and ISO 1600 would be too limiting in that area).

IOW, I'd go with a different body for more flexibility in more conditions (especially since shooting in bars may not be the only time I'd use a camera I'd buy, even if I could use a flash). ;-)

Flash can be very irritating to patrons, too. I've been asked not to use one on more than one occasion to keep from disturbing the patrons, especially if some of them happen to be in a photo (since they're out trying to enjoy themselves and may not appreciate having someone snapping away with a flash, depending on the type of venue and the clientele that frequent it). IOW, I try to be as unobtrusive as possible to prevent offending or irritating guests.
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 10:56 AM   #89
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My plan for today is a trip to go out and handle the Pentax K-x and the Nikon D5000 because I think it has come down to those two models.

From the discussion here and my reading sparked by this discussion, I will eventually want a prime lens (or two), but will make that purchase at a later time, because, out of the box, I'll have something better than I have now. I would however get a flash that works with the camera.

(As an aside, without all of your input, I could not have even ventured into a camera store).
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 11:04 AM   #90
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Just remember with the D5000, it is limiting with the available lenses that can Auto focus on it. That is something you will need to consider if prime lenses are in your plans for later. As and example the nikon AF-s new is 450 dollars compare to the 330 of the pentax. Good plan to check them out.
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