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Old Feb 2, 2010, 6:05 PM   #11
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The difference, shoturtle is because you don't know what you're talking about you mislead people. It is absolutely reasonable that the OP could decide to forgo sports shooting needs but because you give bad information (based on lack of actual experience) you potentially mislead them into thinking they can accomplish something beyond their scope. Just because a person wants to do A, B, C and D for $800 does not mean they can accomplish it. At least when people with actual experience explain the pros/cons the posters can make informed decisions. Since you don't shoot wrestling, don't shoot basketball and don't shoot football you can't give any credible advice on what equipment can shoot those activities yet you continue to chime in with unfounded advice. Which is why we keep going round and round.
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Old Feb 2, 2010, 9:01 PM   #12
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The difference is you think there is only on answer and it is your answer. But no matter what you want to say, it does not change the point that 800 dollars will place all the lens you would suggest completely out of the price range.

And that you are suggesting a system with a minimal cost of 1800-2000 dollars once you add up everything. That is 1000-1200 dollars more then the OP's state budget. You may very easily suggest these lenses. And it may be well worth it for you as you shot sports for a living. But this is a hobby for the OP. And like or not there is a stated budget and there is a honest reason for it. I may not know much, but I can do the math. Something that take 50% of the work load or something that take 15-25% of the work load, which is a more cost effective purchase.

I have never said that these high price lens are not worth the money. But it may be the most practical things to do. And with the A, B, C, and D base on the body that has been suggest. There is no way any of the lenses mention will fit that budget. 729 dollars for the T1i with 1 kit lens. 590 for the XSi with one kit lens. No matter how you do the math, it does not give you to much room to move into a higher price lens.

You can keep insulting me all you want. But it really does not phase me one bit. Because no matter what you said, you have never answer that simple question that I have pose to you countless times. For general photography will the big heavy lenses you recommend all the time fit that bill. And if the sports aspect is only 1/4 of the need, which is the more cost effective thing to get first. And from my reading of the post the 75% of the time uses seem to be the more essential thing.

So next time do not bug me with PM, trying to stress your point. It is not a concern to me.
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Last edited by shoturtle; Feb 4, 2010 at 8:51 PM.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 3:19 AM   #13
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Go ahead. Piss off a Moderater. Good idea.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 7:40 AM   #14
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Default lets stop with the personal insults...

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Go ahead. Piss off a Moderater. Good idea.
LOL - too bad this is getting personal with insults etc..
I am a real newbee here although reading much more than I post. So I don't know the history that exists here... so I might be out of line but.. I think the op really just wants some advice and that is why they posted... to make the enviornment nicer maybe we can stop with the personal insults...
I have seen a number of forums go sour because of silliness like this.. come on we are all adults here and don't all have to agree...
Let's just all get along.
OK everyone - group hug
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 9:28 AM   #15
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For the record, I'm not upset or pissed off. I dont know shoturtle personally. My comments revolve only around his advice to people who want to shoot sports. I've helped several people through the years "recover" from buying wrong equipment because of poor advice. Part of the challenge for people new to DSLRs and photography websites is there are so many opinions - which is good. But it's difficult to judge the veracity of opinions. And it is enticing to want to believe it when you hear the consumer grade zooms are capable of sports shooting. Sometimes they are - which is why it's important to learn the details about what is being shot. But sometimes it's not. That's why I tell people it's important to find people on forums that shoot what you want to shoot and get advice from them on what equipment is needed. Sports and wildlife photography in particular is equipment intensive. If you don't photograph those things you can't really give credible advice on what equipment should be used. Remember we're advising people how to spend large amounts of money. It's not about disagreeing on whether a particular photo is good or not - there's nothing at stake. But when people are spending $600-2,000 bad advice can be dangerous - especially in those areas where proper equipment IS important. Again, I've heard numerous times from people wanting to shoot sports they wish they had had the true picture BEFORE they bought the wrong camera or lens so they could have bought the right one or adjusted their expectations. Spending $600 and failing at an important part of your goal is very frustrating.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 12:16 PM   #16
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I think any forum you visit with varying level of expertise in any medium there will be differing views, and differing levels of experience. Asking the questions and then reading and understanding the responses, even the discussions around advice is the OP's job.

With that being said I am going to plan on stepping back from football for this season. It is a new HS and I am going to try and work with the football parent committee to spend some of the proceeds from concessions etc to hire a photographer locally for some of the games.

So with that, I guess my decision really revolves around whether to get a bridge camera or invest in a T1i for now with limited accessories(external flash to start with) and the kit lens to start and invest over the next year before next summer ('11). If this means I am limited for right now in pictures for sports I guess that's what I will live with and learn the most I can about the DSLR and what I can do within those limitations until that time, until then I can work with family pictures and gatherings etc, maybe spend some time learning the intricacies of the art.

Honestly I think I might need more time to learn photography as a whole anyways to be able to identify exactly how to utilize those higher cost lenses.

So will be buying:
T1i (kit lens for now)
Metz 48 AF-1 flash
Misc - Bag/card etc.

It will take me slightly over the limit, as imposed by the Purchasing Department(wife) but I think I can barter with her.

John, thanks for your information. Someone who is a sports photographer at such a high level spending the time to answer questions is one of the reasons I felt comfortable asking anything here in the first place. As I move forward and start getting around to purchasing the 70-200 2.8 I will most likely ask you questions as I move along over the next year or so. But I do know the limitations of what I am getting into now at least with the budget I have, and the fact I cannot expect to do everything I originally wanted.

Shoturtle, thanks for understanding the questions I was asking and rewording them a bit to help the thought get across.

To you both, beer solves everything so have a pint and enjoy.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 12:22 PM   #17
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Great way to look at it - at least you are going in with your eyes wide open knowing football and basketball shooting are out and wrestling will have to wait until you get a longer lens in addition to the flash. And you are right to take it slow if you don't understand photography. That way you can find out if you enjoy it enough to eventually make the purchases that will allow you to shoot those activities. Best of luck to you and we look forward to seeing some of your work once you make your purchase.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 12:26 PM   #18
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The T1i is a very good entry level camera, and will form a good foundation for your photography wherever it make take you or you take it.

But if the only other major component of your kit will be a flash, then I suggest you skip the bag and save that for when you have more gear you want to lug around with you. That way, you'll have a better idea of what kind of bag you need.

But for your indoor basketball and evening football under the lights, you won't be able to use the flash, and the kit lens will be of little use. For those things you'll need some large aperture telephoto lenses, but they can come later.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 12:39 PM   #19
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But for your indoor basketball and evening football under the lights, you won't be able to use the flash, and the kit lens will be of little use.
In many parts of the country flash is used for both these sports. Plenty of pros use flash for football - even with todays cameras it just makes the images better because the colors pop and you can see faces better.




A lot of media shoot with flash for basketball. Event photogs will strobe the gyms. I don't like to use flash for basketball and don't do enough of it to invest in strobes for gyms. But still whenever I'm shooting next to guys from the papers they're using shoe-mounted flash. It's common in other parts of the country as well. It has some disadvantages to be sure but it's usually allowed.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 1:00 PM   #20
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Are those shots yours? If so, would those be the level of quality expected with the 70-200 2.8 you were talking about, skill level being equal obviously.
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