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Old Mar 2, 2010, 11:15 PM   #11
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The G1 is a different camera, which performs more comparable to the Olympus Pen models, or Olypus DSLRs. The GH1 is better. It's also more expensive, but may be good value at current prices with the 14-140 package, as the lens alone is likely worth $800. Check any professional review site, high ISO performance is absolutely comparable to the 500D, or even the new 550D.

The DXO Mark test liked showed the G1 only good quality in low light to ISO 467, with the GH1 good to ISO 772 and the 550D good to ISO 807. Of course the definition of "good" here is a somewhat arbitrarily chosen standard of signal to noise, but it makes for a reasonably objective comparison at that standard.
Sorry I have seen enough photo with panny sensor with shoot past 800iso, And there is no way it acceptable when you get to 1600 let along 3200. At 800iso and below, the panny may be better.
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Old Mar 2, 2010, 11:47 PM   #12
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marcelo,

Here is a comparison of the t1i at 1600is f3.5 at 1/6 sec against the EPL-1 at the same settings.
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Old Mar 2, 2010, 11:53 PM   #13
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Thanks shoturtle. The difference is clear in this test! The first shot is perfect!
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Old Mar 3, 2010, 12:02 AM   #14
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The G1 is a great camera, but 4/3 and m4/3 has it's iso limit. So that is why I take those stat charts with a good sense of reality. No matter how great a rating the G1 sensor gets. It can not alter the laws of physic. The oly is acceptable at 1600, but you do see the noise level quite well without the crop. The crop just magnifies it.

If you were a hdr shoot, the G1 or GH1 would be the camera of choice, set the iso to no higher then 800iso, and tripod it for long exposure with a 5 shot EV bracket, then put it together on the computer for the finish HDR.

For low light you want a dslr with a aps-c sensor with a iso of at least 6400. 12800 would be better for more hand handheld. And a bright lens. And you will have no problem in dark places.
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Old Mar 3, 2010, 12:04 AM   #15
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Sorry I have seen enough photo with panny sensor with shoot past 800iso, And there is no way it acceptable when you get to 1600 let along 3200. At 800iso and below, the panny may be better.
With the G1 sensor or the GH1 sensor? They aren't the same sensor.

And it does fall behind a bit purely on noise past ISO 800 (at least in JPEG), but it also preserves more detail.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Pa...H1/noise.shtml

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At first glance, the Lumix GH1 appears to roughly match the Nikon D90 up until the 1600 ISO mark, where noise levels on the Panasonic become more visible. This in itself isnít a bad result at all for the Lumix GH1, given its physically smaller sensor, and the fact the D90 is a leader in high ISO performance. But look at those crops more closely and, as discussed above, youíll see the amount of real-life detail delivered by both models is actually roughly the same. The D90 may be cleaner by default from this point on, but isnít recording significantly greater detail.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pana...gh1/page14.asp

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Finally let's take a look a the GH1's RAW output next to the competition. Removing any in-camera noise reduction and processing the images using Adobe Camera Raw (V5.4 Beta in this case, all NR set to 0) gives us the nearest thing to a 'level playing field' for assessing the relative noise levels of the four cameras' sensors.

In this RAW comparison the GH1's Four Thirds sensor does, from a noise point of view, a pretty decent job versus the larger APS-C sensors of the Canon and Nikon. With noise reduction reduced to a minimum the GH1 produces slightly more noise than the Nikon D5000 but less chroma noise than the Canon EOS 500D and Olympus E-620. All in all the differences between the cameras here are pretty small though.
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Old Mar 3, 2010, 12:05 AM   #16
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An intersting test:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor

Despite we can discuss if these parameters are valid, Nikon D5000 is very well placed at this ranking, in 18th just after D90 (17th) and in front Nikon D300s (21st), Sony A380 (23rd), Sony A700 (25th), Canon 7D (30th), Sony A550 (also 30th), Canon T2i (31st), Panasonic GH1 (43rd), Canon T1i (50th), Pentax K-7 (56th). In front of D5000 between the most popular brands there are only $2000+ cameras...

Quote: "With the launch of the Nikon D5000, Nikon captures the top two places on the DxOMark Sensor scale for APS-C sensor format cameras. The Nikon D5000 sensor behaves globally like the Nikon D90’s sensor, with very similar results for Color Depth and Dynamic Range in particular." (full review: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng...he-Nikon-D5000)

Note: the Pentax K-X is not yet ranked - exactly the comparision I'd like to see...

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Old Mar 3, 2010, 12:10 AM   #17
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Also, again not the same as the G1:

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While in terms of dynamic range, resolution and detail the GH1 performs pretty much identically to its older sister model G1 Panasonic has made some noticeable improvements in the noise area. The improved performance starts to become visible (but only just) at ISO 800 but it is much more obvious at the two highest ISO settings. As you can see on the crops below at ISO 1600 and 3200 the GH1 produces less of both luminance and chroma noise than the G1 whilst pretty much maintaining the level of detail.
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Old Mar 3, 2010, 12:11 AM   #18
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Here is the rub, it may have detail, but to reduce the noise in pp. You lose the detail anyways. So it really is a moot point. I've seen what Walter_S does with his hdr with his G1. It is fantastic. But he has said it himself after 800iso. It is to noisy to use.

I am a fan of the G1 for HDR, and if I shot HDR. It may be my camera of choice also. I like the panny, I am getting panny lenses for my epl-1. I have nothing against panny.
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Old Mar 3, 2010, 12:14 AM   #19
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Ken,

You are fighting the laws of physic and it is a losing battle. Sorry to say. I say it again, I think the panny line up is a great setup. But again it is base on what you shoot. And low light is something that it is not suited for without a tripod and long exposures.
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Old Mar 3, 2010, 1:53 AM   #20
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Also DXO Mark review:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng...-Lumix-DMC-GH1
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At first glance, we would expect both cameras to have similar (if not identical) sensors. Actually, looking at the GH1 manufacturerís specifications, this is definitely not the case, since the GH1 contains a slightly wider sensor capable of keeping the same diagonal size for different aspect ratios such as 4/3, 3/2, and 16/9. The sensor is natively 14 megapixels, but at most only 12 megapixels can be output in 4/3 aspect ratio (fewer with other aspect ratios), so we chose to evaluate its performance in 4/3 aspect ratio.


DxOMark Sensor analysis clearly shows that the new GH1 sensor is different and actually performance has increased dramatically: a 63.6 DxOMark Sensor score for the GH1, versus 53 for the G1, about a 2/3-stop gain (a 1-stop gain is equivalent to 15 DxOMark Sensor points).

Compared to other four-thirds sensors, the Panasonic DMC GH1 is the best performer of those currently evaluated in DxOMark Sensor, especially in terms of dynamic range.
The GH1 even outperforms a hypothetical four-thirds sensor cut from a (wider) Canon EOS 7D sensor (with the same pixel size). With its 50% larger sensor surface (corresponding to 9 DxOMark Sensor points), one would expect the 7D to have outperformed the GH1 by 9 points. Instead, it achieves a DxOMark score of 64.9 ó only slightly more than 1 point above the GH1ís score of 63.6.
Four-thirds performances

Except for the Olympus E410 and Olympus E510 (both released in early 2007), which have a DxOMark Sensor score of about 50, most four-thirds sensors have a DxOMark Sensor score of about 55. The GH1 outperforms them all with a DxOMark Sensor score of 63.6.
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