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Old Apr 19, 2010, 12:21 PM   #1
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Default EOS 7D versus Eos-5D Mark II

Anyone - Steve,

I do intend to upgrade from my venerable and faithful EOS 20D in several months.

My shooting needs. Wildlife, birds, animals. Landscaps. Flowers, Flower Shows. Less often family photographs for birthdays and events, mostly indoors, with some taken in church. I have done no video pictures as of this date.

Price issues are not in the picture. Since the Mark II can be had for prices near the Eos 7D. At least this is what I have seen.

Too me one of the drawbacks of the Eos-5d is lack of built in flash. Often I take pictures indoors without a flash. We know that the EOS 20D has difficulties with low level tungsten light. But I can get around these with my ACDsee Pro software. I do have an older Speed-Lite. If there was a miniature speed lite, that would solve things. The Speed-Lite is so big and bulky. The size of the images is certainly not an issue.

So what camera should I buy. My impression is that the EOS-5 takes better images, even in low light. The Eos 7d is a more of a general purpose camera, with speed. Perhaps my experience taking pictures without flash indoors mostly has been a good one, and will get better with the EOS - 5d. I am hoping that the other problem of lack of detail with white images, which no amount of software can bring out well without resorting to darkening the image too much for the printer. My printer is an EPSON R1800.
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Old Apr 19, 2010, 12:42 PM   #2
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Well, it's a trade-off. The 7d will give you a big bonus for the wildlife - better focus system and better pixel density. I.E. given the same lens, the 7d will get more pixels on your subject than the 5dII will.

The 5dII is better in high ISO situations though.

Mark1616 owns both so you might want to drop him a PM and get his input.
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Old Apr 19, 2010, 12:43 PM   #3
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If you have any APS-C lenses (Canon AF-S, Sigma DC, or Tamron Di-II), they won't work on a 5DMkII (or more precisely, they will vignette A LOT!)
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Old Apr 19, 2010, 1:21 PM   #4
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Since you listed wildlife and birds first, i am going to go on a limb and assume those are your primary shooting subjects.

In this case, as John pointed out, the 7d with its crop factor will be a of a big bonus. Plus coming from a 20d, as TCAV noted you may have some crop factor lenses, which will not work on the 5d. And since you express interest in having a popup flash for when you don't have your speedlight.

It seems like on a first pass at least the 7D makes more sense as an upgrade from your 20D.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 7:43 PM   #5
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Default EOS 7D versus Eos-5D Mark II

do intend to upgrade from my venerable and faithful EOS 20D in several months.

My shooting needs. Wildlife, birds, animals. Landscaps. Flowers, Flower Shows. Less often family photographs for birthdays and events, mostly indoors, with some taken in church. I have done no video pictures as of this date.

Price issues are not in the picture. Since the Mark II can be had for prices near the Eos 7D. At least this is what I have seen.

Too me one of the drawbacks of the Eos-5d is lack of built in flash. Often I take pictures indoors without a flash. We know that the EOS 20D has difficulties with low level tungsten light. But I can get around these with my ACDsee Pro software. I do have an older Speed-Lite. If there was a miniature speed lite, that would solve things. The Speed-Lite is so big and bulky. The size of the images is certainly not an issue.

So what camera should I buy. My impression is that the EOS-5 takes better images, even in low light. The Eos 7d is a more of a general purpose camera, with speed. Perhaps my experience taking pictures without flash indoors mostly has been a good one, and will get better with the EOS - 5d. I am hoping that the other problem of lack of detail with white images, which no amount of software can bring out well without resorting to darkening the image too much for the printer. My printer is an EPSON R1800.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 7:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben lamfers View Post
...If there was a miniature speed lite, that would solve things...
Canon makes a little 270EX that uses 2 AA batteries, and I see some comments from 5D Mk II users in some of the user reviews you can find on vendor sites. For example, scroll down to March 11 here and you'll see one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...7-USA/#reviews

It looks like it's missing an AF assist lamp and I don't know if it supports FP mode or not. But, it appears to be relatively small.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 8:32 PM   #7
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Hi Ben, I got your PM and also joined the two threads you started together so people can see all the information posted.

As pointed out I'm fortunate enough to have both of these cameras and can say that they are both great in different ways..... oh if they would only combine them Anyway, dreaming over, let's get back to you.

Firstly I will say it is 3.15am here so I hope I make sense in what I type, you might need to ask me to clarify some things tomorrow LOL.

What lenses do you currently have, that will possibly have an impact on your choice?

For quality, there is nothing (almost) to compare to the 5DmkII, it is beautiful, I love using it, and out of the two, it is the one that I pick up for my general shooting. When I want extra reach, better AF then I will go for the 7D. The AF and especially the tracking abilities of the 7D are wonderful. I did some comparisons to my 1DmkIII when I first picked up the 7D (yes I like having lots of toys and find many ways to justify them to myself), and the 7D wasn't a long way behind the 1DmkIII at all. You can see the results of that here http://forums.steves-digicams.com/ca...g-7d-test.html

Where the 5DmkII really wins is in high ISO noise, or lack of noise. I would say you have about 1.5 to 2 stops gain in per pixel detail at the higher ISOs, even so you will find the overall performance of the 7D very similar to that of the 20D (which did better than the 30D), but you are cramming in more pixels so are getting a gain there. Personally I would have loved the 7D to have been 12 - 14mp with much reduced noise, but Canon is catering to the big numbers people who like to say I've got an 18mp camera. To be honest, I like to be able to say it, that and a 21mp one lol, but honestly the pixel count isn't as important when you push the higher ISOs.

As for flash, I'm not even sure the built in one on my 7D works as I've never tried it. If I'm going to be using flash I will have a 580Ex or EXII on the 7D (usually the EXII goes on the 7D as it has the faster recycle time and the EX goes on the 5DmkII). If you are spending this sort of money to get good shots, the using a build in flash, apart from in an emergency, is to me a waste.

Here is another thread I started when I got the 7D with a few more photos. http://forums.steves-digicams.com/ca...-i-got-7d.html

Oh, lastly, Canon's auto white balance still isn't great, Nikon has this area sorted out better too, so be prepared to set it manually or adjust in post production.

OK, I lied that wasn't lastly, but hopefully this will be (it's now 3.30 so brain is gone), with wildlife then the 7D can be a real winner as you are on the 1.6x crop body like you are used to, going FF is not the best for wildlife as you are not getting so many pixels on our little fury and fluffy friends.

I'm happy to answer any questions and can post other examples if needed (and if around) a busy few days ahead but will do my best to help.

OK that's it, signing off and getting to sleep!!
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 4:43 PM   #8
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overall performance of the 7D very similar to that of the 20D (which did better than the 30D). What do you mean by this? Now the 20D has some problems. In low light and tungsten light, the images always have a yellow cast. I have learned how to correct that within limits in my software. In low light conditions noise begins to increase. I will say one thing, I never upgraded that camera, carried it around on 4 major vacations, over 5 years, and banged it hard only once. But never a clitch. The other problem the mini joystick does not always work, it turns off the image, when used - sometimes. That is a problem.

Are you saying that these problems are still with us in EOS 7D? I have a EF 24-105 L IS USM, EF-S 10-22mm, EF-S 60 MM Macro, 100-400mm L IS USM Zoom, EF 50mm F/1.4 USM, and a EF 25 II.

I use ACDSee Pro 2.5 a lot heresy right, and Serif PagePlus X3 for scrapbooks, and special image sizing situations, along with Adobe PSE 7 for difficult situations. The oddity is that though the above problems do not go away, my image editing results are getting better. But I don't I am looking for an improvement over the 20D for sure.
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 5:32 PM   #9
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I was talking about high ISO performance where the 20D did better at 3200 than the 30D.

With white balance the presets are just that, they can't guess exactly the temperature of the lights but they will get you close, often better than AWB but not always. If you want to get things as close as possible out of the camera then get a white balance card or white balance cleaning cloth (heard about them not seen one but they sound like they work).

With your lens collection and assuming that you want these ranges covered then you would be losing out with the 5DmkII compared to the 7D as the 400mm wouldn't appear as long and you couldn't use the 10-20, however the 24mm is now going to have a wider field of view on the 5DmkII.

One thing to consider, with the 5DmkII, if you crop it to the same field of view as the 20D you do get about the same resolution, but a lot better clarity so that is worth knowing.

I'm off to Cairo tomorrow for the day (never been apart from using the airport, so though I should go), I've struggled long and hard with what to take as weight is a consideration. I've decided upon the 7D and 24-105mm f4. I've also thrown in the 1.4x TC and the plastic fantastic 50mm f1.8..... oh and the 580EXII (this is as light as I can go). Although I'm still really thinking of just switching for the 5DmkII.... so it is not just buying them that is hard, but if you have them both and can only take one which do you go for.
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