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Old Apr 28, 2010, 10:37 AM   #81
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Folks-

Please keep in mind that all of these shots were taken hand held. They were taken hand held because the average amateur user would not normally use a tripod.

We could probably improve the image quality by adding a slave flash to increase the volume of light in the photo environment. I will experiment with that approach today.

I will also experiment with reducing the resolution in all cameras today as well, in hope that we can perfect a slight different, but better formula for improved image quality. However, Five-O did make a valid point, in that these are small imager pocket cameras performing at their full design potential.

More later.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 11:26 AM   #82
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Sarah many thanks for your earnest and diligent mindset to guide others!! You are a blessing...
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 11:26 AM   #83
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I'm not so sure reducing the resolution from the menu level will change anything. My understanding is that a lot of these IQ problems come from the fact that too many pixels on a tiny sensor = poor sensitivity at each pixel, more noise and more NR. If you're just selecting a lower resolution, does the camera actually take a full rez picture, then resize, or does it just use less pixels on the sensor. The way I see it, unless it's able to couple pixels on the sensor to make them bigger, like Fuji's EXR sensor, it shouldn't be any different than my taking your 14mp photo and resizing in photoshop...
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 11:33 AM   #84
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edyyz has it right.

only the EXR system will gain anything by using a lower resolution due to the pixel fusion technology.
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 11:34 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by zchymalaga View Post
FiveO.

1. This has been done to death. Check the professional reviews.


Aham! More or less this is the start point in the comparision in this thread, in your opinion has been done to death, IMHO it is interesting, because it is made for a experienced amateur who buys cams, who shows her personal job, no obtain money, no conflict of interest...

2. HHT is very useful imho for low-light candid shots. The ZS7 cannot compete in low-light handheld shots With a tripod, both cams perform similarly in low light.

I will appreciate if you can provide me a link to compare ZS7 vs Hx5v in low light conditions, with and without HHT. I only see on Camera Labs images comparisions in HHT, iA modes of HX5v.

3. The HX5V still suffers from many of the same problems for video regardless of the format used. I won't cover them again as they've already been covered ad nauseam.

I donīt care about nauseam problems Seriously, I have read mixed opinions about different quality in Hx5v videos in low light conditions when you use different formats to record, It would be nice to check it, to clear it.


I don't agree with your last statement at all. The ZS7 is a step back in IQ but a step ahead on all other fronts. Therefore it is a matter of perspective and what is important to a given individual. This is nothing new though. Anyone who has read a single review of the ZS7 knows the ZS3's IQ is superior and also knows the appeal of the ZS7 are the new features.

I think here we have the exactly same opinion. I was talking about iQ,(not said) in my opinion should be a very important point in a Photo Cam ( or we are forgetting it is a photo cam )
But I agree with you, ZS7 offers a great package of new very interesting features never seen in Lumix line, but we need to decide if we can lost iQ for obtain these new features ( IMHO the most interesting is PASM more than GPS...)

Regarding the HX5V, I disagree completely yet again. The HX5V colors are pretty decent though not as vibrant as the Panasonic cams. The reds are also seriously oversaturated.

In the cuddly toy photos, IMHO, Hx5v iQ is simply AWFUL, bad colors, oversaturated, not detailed, but your opinion is quite different, and very interesting.
1. Yes that is my opinion. You have also insinuated that professional reviewers alter photos in exchange for bribes. This is certainly not going to be the case with the large, respected review sites. They would lose all credibility, all readers and ultimately all advertisers. It's not a wise financial decision. One can get away with a jaded opinion on such sites, but not outright altering images.
3. I am not saying there aren't differences in the video. I am simply saying that the problems that many are bothered by, such as the washed out color and blurring of motion, are still present regardless of format. If I have time before my vacation, I will post samples.

Once again, I find the IQ of all 3 cameras to be good at small print sizes and for viewing on my TV. I'm not blind so I can obviously see the faults within each camera's images. I am simply of the opinion that pixel peeping is only useful for discussion and not for real world application, especially when we are discussing cameras in this class which were designed for the consumer. Besides, if you weren't already aware of these issues, then you haven't read all of the reviews available to you. There are numerous professional reviews comparing the ZS3 to the ZS7, including a full array of ISO comparison shots. Likewise, the same exists for the ZS7 vs the HX5V. The only difference here is that you have all 3 side by side.

Last edited by FiveO; Apr 28, 2010 at 12:30 PM.
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 11:58 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtclimber View Post
Folks-

Please keep in mind that all of these shots were taken hand held. They were taken hand held because the average amateur user would not normally use a tripod.

We could probably improve the image quality by adding a slave flash to increase the volume of light in the photo environment. I will experiment with that approach today.

I will also experiment with reducing the resolution in all cameras today as well, in hope that we can perfect a slight different, but better formula for improved image quality. However, Five-O did make a valid point, in that these are small imager pocket cameras performing at their full design potential.

More later.

Sarah Joyce
Personally I wouldn't bother with a slave flash test for the same reason you are not testing with a tripod; the average amateur simply won't have one. Actually more amateurs are likely to have tripods than slave flashes and the slave flash adds too much complexity for most people to be bothered by. I personally wouldn't ever consider one and I like to think I have an average understanding of photography.

edYYZ and Dustin are correct about trying to use a lower res in the hope of less noise. The EXR system is in the only in camera system that will give lower noise at a lower resolution.
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Last edited by Mark1616; Apr 28, 2010 at 12:03 PM.
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 12:21 PM   #87
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Thanks for the excellent feed back, Mark-

Sarah Joyce
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 12:58 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Folks-

Please keep in mind that all of these shots were taken hand held. They were taken hand held because the average amateur user would not normally use a tripod.

Sarah Joyce
I agree with you. P&S compact camera user normally donīt use any accesories to take photos. Normally P&S users are worried about size and weight of their cameras,problably most of the compact users think that is nonsense to carry a slave flash or a tripod. If the iQ is your target, of course, you use them, and also probably you use a DSLR.
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 2:06 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zchymalaga View Post
I will appreciate if you can provide me a link to compare ZS7 vs Hx5v in low light conditions, with and without HHT. I only see on Camera Labs images comparisions in HHT, iA modes of HX5v.
Here you go.

http://picasaweb.google.com/10843799...X5VComparison#

I realize the 2 cameras used different ISO settings. I have taken more but they are not on the PC yet.
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Last edited by FiveO; Apr 28, 2010 at 2:13 PM.
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Old Apr 28, 2010, 2:16 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtclimber View Post
Folks-

Please keep in mind that all of these shots were taken hand held. They were taken hand held because the average amateur user would not normally use a tripod.

We could probably improve the image quality by adding a slave flash to increase the volume of light in the photo environment. I will experiment with that approach today.

I will also experiment with reducing the resolution in all cameras today as well, in hope that we can perfect a slight different, but better formula for improved image quality. However, Five-O did make a valid point, in that these are small imager pocket cameras performing at their full design potential.

More later.

Sarah Joyce
First of all, thanks for the time it takes to help us. I understand that cameras are pocket. But I do not understand because each time taking pictures of lower quality and this issue of saturation is killing me. Here I leave a sample of pictures taken with P150 and T900. I change my T900 and buy something that take better pictures and I think that the P150 but I think the less saturated than the colors is the TZ10?

Sacada con mi Sony P150
http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?..._122_799lo.JPG
http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?..._122_798lo.JPG
http://img186.imagevenue.com/img.php...122_146lo.JPG#

Sacadas con mi T900

http://img231.imageshack.us/i/dsc07068.jpg/
http://img265.imageshack.us/i/dsc07064.jpg/
http://img706.imageshack.us/i/dsc07066s.jpg/



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