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Old May 11, 2010, 10:26 AM   #11
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I would NEVER want to use the one DSLR I tried last weekend.
Now i'm curious...
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Old May 11, 2010, 10:47 AM   #12
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Ha ha - OK John I know for many people (inc. you and TCav) that ergonomics are important but I also know for many it hardly matters that much if there are more important considerations. And isn't the ability of the camera to capture the shot at all, or not , due to low light / AF issues more important ? Horses for courses.

I'm also intrigued as to which DSLR you would NEVER want to use !
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Old May 11, 2010, 11:00 AM   #13
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Frogfish - what spcifications did the OP provide that make you think AF will be an issue. And for the type of AF under consideration, that one camera over another would be more capable?

As for the mystery camera - I'll leave that a mystery. It's not important because it may feel 'right' to someone else. I was taking photos at a birthday party with a friend's camera for them. The pictures may turn out great, but it just wasn't a comfortable tool in my hand.

It's more important with a DSLR IMO because your hands as a whole tend to grip them - vs. smaller digicams where you're usually gripping with just fingers

Along those same lines, I have no issues using pocket digicams, but I prefer larger DSLRs over smaller ones. I think you'll find if you talk to people that have used both smaller and larger (not necessarily the Canon and Nikon pro body bricks) DSLRs people often have a preference - independent of functionality. Some prefer smaller and some prefer larger because one or the other is easier for them to operate based on hand size
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Old May 11, 2010, 2:16 PM   #14
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Frogfish - what spcifications did the OP provide that make you think AF will be an issue. And for the type of AF under consideration, that one camera over another would be more capable?
Ergonomics - I understand your viewpoint, but to many it isn't an issue so on that point I can only agree to differ ! Although for me personally the camera's performance must rate about 'how it feels in the hand' unless there is so little between them that the ergonomics becomes a factor - but that's my personal opinion only of course.

As for the OP and why I think that low light / AF may end up being an issue :

Let's take the OP's words " I'm buying the camera mostly for travel and scenery photographs. I assume that it will be used mostly outdoors".

Most of us have traveled, I have lived in many countries and traveled to many many more and when traveling I see that 'most' tourists (and I can not include the OP here of course because I don't know him personally) take many shots of interiors & exteriors of interesting buildings, streets & markets, whether they are in Venice, Istanbul, Shanghai, Paris or London. If they are in a place with beautiful sunsets then everyone wants that classic red sky shot to take home. Those are just examples off the top of my head and I'm sure we could think of many more.

As far as the AF is concerned, then often when touring we come across fast moving objects of interest, be they animals, birds, boats or in the case of Shanghai - the fastest train in the world !

Im not saying that these ARE issues to Mr Chiang, maybe they are, maybe they are not, I just threw them out for consideration and got shot down in a post that had no other function but that and contributed zero to the OP's question !
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Old May 11, 2010, 2:52 PM   #15
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As for the OP and why I think that low light / AF may end up being an issue :

Let's take the OP's words " I'm buying the camera mostly for travel and scenery photographs. I assume that it will be used mostly outdoors".

Most of us have traveled, I have lived in many countries and traveled to many many more and when traveling I see that 'most' tourists (and I can not include the OP here of course because I don't know him personally) take many shots of interiors & exteriors of interesting buildings, streets & markets, whether they are in Venice, Istanbul, Shanghai, Paris or London. If they are in a place with beautiful sunsets then everyone wants that classic red sky shot to take home. Those are just examples off the top of my head and I'm sure we could think of many more.

As far as the AF is concerned, then often when touring we come across fast moving objects of interest, be they animals, birds, boats or in the case of Shanghai - the fastest train in the world !
I understand what you're saying. BUT, it's a slippery slope. If you're going to make purchase decisions based upon focus tracking for moving birds, Suddenly you are left with Nikon d90 and above, Canon T1i and above. Their focus tracking ability is significantly better than pentax, sony (excluding A700 if OP could find one) or Oly. AND, chances are the photos taken will be compromised as well because of lack of focal length or lack of fast focusing lens.

For occasional use, The focus ability of Pentax, Oly or Sony are just fine - no need for the more advanced systems Canon or Nikon provide.

Now, I will agree that interior shots are important. So, high ISO performance CAN BE important. Focus ability in low light CAN BE important. Certainly valid. The question is: does one camera get a clear edge or one camera get eliminated based upon low light focus ability or high iso performance?
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Old May 11, 2010, 3:05 PM   #16
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I certainly wouldn't want to make that call based on my relative lack of experience John - I was just throwing it out there for the OP to consider and research if he wanted to.

Personally I would take the Kx - but that's because I know & like Pentax much better than Sony and because the T1 isn't as good in low light as the Kx. Also because there are so many options of cheaper but still high quality glass in M42 or older Pentax lenses (if you are happy using MF). However I'm quite aware that isn't what the OP asked
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Old May 11, 2010, 3:24 PM   #17
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The T1i is a bit nosier then the K-x. But the K-x is also more aggressive on the NR. As others have mention and my samples show, less noise with some lost detail is pentax, more noise more detail with canon.

Every system has their pros and cons. And I am lucky I get to play with multiple systems. But from the original 4 listed the K-x has a lead on them, in AF and low light.
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Old May 11, 2010, 7:46 PM   #18
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I'll also vote for the Kx. But it would be wise to go to http://dpreview.com and look at user ratings and comments on the candidate cameras. See what is liked and disliked; see especially what the complaints are. That's what I did before I bought my first dSLR a couple years ago -- I was leaning towards Sony or Olympus, then I fondled Nikon and Canon, but the user histories (and lens prices) drove me to my first-ever Pentax.
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