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Old Jun 30, 2010, 3:28 PM   #11
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Hi bigeclipse,

With regard to what is meant by lowlight in these P&S discussions, I interpret it as any lighting which requires the camera to boost its ISO above ISO 200, usually ISO 400 or above. So this can mean indoors without flash where the ambient lighting requires ISO 400 or higher. Or it can mean indoors with flash but the amount of flash illumination still requires the camera to use ISO 400 or higher.

The key here is that when the camera has to boost its ISO above ISO 200, it means that the sensor is receiving less than optimum amounts of light. When that happens, photon and electronic amplification noise becomes a larger percentage of the signal. When that happens, modern cameras try to make up for it with digital noise reduction (NR) which can result in NR artifacts in low-light images.

We may just now be on the cusp of a revolution in lowlight picture quality for small sensor, pocketable P&S cameras. This revolution (if it happens positively) is being brought on by the BSI (Back Side Illuminated) CMOS sensors in the newer pocketable P&S cameras.

Some compact P&S cameras are starting to utilize the Sony 10MP BSI sensor. Sony says this sensor doubles the sensitivity of standard CMOS sensors, so the camera manufacturers that use it also say that. The use of the Sony BSI sensor can noticeably improve the low-light ability of compact P&S cameras but some of the cameras that have used it so far have had less than stellar reviews regarding sharpness. There is hope though since the Ricoh GXR P10 camera apparently is using this sensor and the images I’ve seen for it so far are sharp with very little noise. The P10 is larger than pocketable however. For those interested, here’s a link to the P10’s low-light images:

http://www.alphamountworld.com/revie...sions?page=0,1

All of the above is leading to the upcoming Samsung TL350/WB2000 pocketable P&S camera which is rumored to be released in August 2010. I’ve posted about this camera before so won’t repeat all of it here. Suffice it to say that it will use a 10MP BSI sensor and have other features that can contribute to its low-light ability. If 5x zoom is sufficient for you, it may be worth waiting to see how this camera performs.

Sky

Last edited by skylark; Jun 30, 2010 at 3:59 PM.
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Old Jun 30, 2010, 3:30 PM   #12
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LTZ, just one final question and I think im going with the ZS7. I stated about how I heard it gets streaks in bright light in video mode. Are we talking like almost directly pointed at the sun and it streaks or simply being outside on a bright bright day and video with streak? or even in a bright bright light inside a room
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Old Jun 30, 2010, 3:41 PM   #13
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Any bright light can do it just don't point the ZS7 directly at it and you'll get great video...I did try mine and was impressed...I took some indoor shots also with the ZS7...there is a nice ripoffs case link too...be sure and scroll all the way down to see the indoor shots I uploaded from FlickR as the ones I loaded directly to the site were softened...
http://forums.steves-digicams.com/pa...-review-3.html
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Old Jun 30, 2010, 3:48 PM   #14
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LTZ you have been great. Thats exactly what I needed were examples. I can see what people are saying about the low light shots, however.....it is very acceptable for me. I will rarely, if ever, be in a setting where its very low light and flash is to far away. Even if its a birthday party and someone is blowing the candles out, I will simply move within 8 feet or closer and use flash. I love the day photos of this camera sooooo much after seeing your close macros and such that I really dont mind the lower light pictures. The ones you posted a few posts back of the dog, that would be the lowest light id be snapping in on a regular basis (if indoors). so thank you.
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Old Jun 30, 2010, 3:53 PM   #15
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bigeclipse-


www.amazon.com has has a special $50 promotional discount coupon, that worked like a charm last week, and it would be worth looking at if you will be purchasing in the short term. Here is the link.

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/pa...s7-50-off.html

Sarah Joyce

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Old Jun 30, 2010, 4:05 PM   #16
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thanks
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Old Jun 30, 2010, 6:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylark View Post
The key here is that when the camera has to boost its ISO above ISO 200, it means that the sensor is receiving less than optimum amounts of light. When that happens, photon and electronic amplification noise becomes a larger percentage of the signal. When that happens, modern cameras try to make up for it with digital noise reduction (NR) which can result in NR artifacts in low-light images.
By their very design, BSI sensors introduce more noise than their CCD counterparts which is why we have seen increased NR on the pocket cameras that utilize this sensor. There are a number of technical documents which explain how and why this occurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylark View Post
We may just now be on the cusp of a revolution in lowlight picture quality for small sensor, pocketable P&S cameras. This revolution (if it happens positively) is being brought on by the BSI (Back Side Illuminated) CMOS sensors in the newer pocketable P&S cameras.
There is nothing "revolutionary" about BSI sensors. They have been around for years. While I concur that there are certainly improvements over an equivalently sized CCD or traditional CMOS, the improvements are not sizeable. This is also explained in various technical documents.

I agree that the upcoming Samsung may be the best of the bunch so far, but it will still have the characteristics that are unequivocally tied to the BSI sensor. There's nothing wrong with that but it should be pointed out to anyone considering one along with the potential merits of the camera.
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Old Jul 1, 2010, 10:07 AM   #18
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just to let you all know I went ahead and ordered the zs7. I am very excited!!! Thanks for everyones input. I decided that this will get me through for a while while I save up for a nice DSLR. By the way the 50 dollar rebate worked perfectly. 240 for what used to be a 399 camera cant complain. I added 15 dollars to overnight it so i can have it tomorrow for this beautiful weekend coming up. Total spent 255 thanks everyone
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Old Jul 1, 2010, 10:13 AM   #19
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Congratulations, bigeclipse-

That is friends helping friends. We happy that you found the right camera and will have it for this coming weekend.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Jul 1, 2010, 1:29 PM   #20
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I want to learn this cameras abilities inside and out, then I will move on to a DSLR. If I am going to be spending over a 1000 on a decent camera and lense then I want to know what I am doing first thanks again everyone
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