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Old Sep 10, 2010, 4:47 PM   #11
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yeah, you are researching allot of different cameras all at once. It is a bit over taxing I imagine.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 6:40 PM   #12
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S/T-

I know you have never used the Kodak Z-915, nor do you own a Z-915. In view of that I really would appreciate it if you do not make performance statements about the camera, as all you are doing is looking a a specification sheet.

A lot of folks here on the Forum, including myself, have been very pleased with the Z-915's performance. No, it is certainly not a DSLR camera, it is a P+S camera. But at $99.00 it has made a lot of people happy.

Please refrain from knocking the Kodak Z-915 until you ACTUALLY purchase one and shoot it under a wide variety of conditions. If you did, you would be very surprised. As frequent posters on this Forum we (you and I) have a real responsibility to be very factual in any statements that we make.

Sarah Joyce

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Old Sep 10, 2010, 11:01 PM   #13
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Sarah, that kind of tone is not necessary and does not promote open discussion, and I think you took offense where it was not intended, as I don't see anything where ST said anything negative of the Kodak in general.

he only stated that at 800 and 1600 ISO the other cameras mentioned (S90/G11/LX3) outperform the Kodak's. This statement is actually quite correct and supported by many professional reviews, as well as the laws of physics with the aforementioned cameras having larger sensors than the Kodak (1/1.7 vs 1/2.3). of course the kodak's have other advantages, namely ease of use, zoom range (10x vs 3-4ishx), and price. its really just about picking the right tool for the job.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 11:40 PM   #14
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Sarah,

As Hards stated is pretty much what I was taking about. I am not discounting the kodak, but in the op's stated condition the camera will be used. It is really not the right tool. The Op has done enough research on her own to have come up with the best tools for this need. And the list is pretty much dead on imho for the needs.

Also as someone who shoots indoor low light dancing quite a bit where no flash is allowed or highly discouraged. I do know that the dynamics to get a decent photo in those challenging condition where a dslr at 3200 and 6400 is still very tough match with a f1.4 or f1.8 lens.

The op's niece will be shooting at 1600iso and in the pinch will need that 3200iso that the large sensor affords it, and match with the F2 lens of the 1/1.63 cameras. And zooming will be most likely out of the question because stopping down is going to show down the shutter speed. These are just the simple facts about shooting indoor dance. It is not like a band where the motions is not as high that can affords you a longer exposure at 800iso. To get any decent photos, she will need to get the shutter speed above 1/60 to get some decent shots with an acceptable level of motion blur.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 11:57 PM   #15
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May I chip in? A couple of things for you to consider:
- her knowledge in photography (auto mode or will she know what settings to change)
- does she like carrying extra equipment/bag and babysitting her camera, or would she rather throw one in into her purse/jeans pocket (the camera size)
- how near/far will she be away from the stage (how much zoom she needs)
- what sort of pictures will she be taking (posed vs action; I am guessing it will be action shots)

Assuming she needs something small, auto mode and as much zoom as possible, perhaps a Canon SD4500 will be of interest?

Another option you may consider is Fuji F70/72/75EXR, though the zoom range is slightly shorter than the SD4500, it has a wider angle (28mm vs 35mm of the SD4500). The Fuji however, requires you to meddle with the settings to bring out the best in it. You may even consider the new Fuji F300EXR.

I have read that the S90/S95 do not do so well in auto mode, and its zoom length is quite short too; similar too for the LX3/LX5.

Another thing to remember, is that although the S90/95 and LX3/LX5 have F2 lenses, that is only at the wide end of things; when zoomed in (at their respective maximum zoom range), the playing field changes. Example:

S90/95 [28mm @ F2] [105mm @ F4.9]
LX3/5 [24mm @ F2] [90mm @ F3.3]
F70EXR [27mm @ F3.3] [270mm @ F5.6]
F300EXR [24mm @ F3.5] [360mm @ F5.3]
SD4500 [36mm @ F3.4] [360mm @ F5.6]
Z915 [35mm @ F3.5] [350 @ F4.8] > fuwah!!

So do consider where will she be when she is taking the picture. Either way, it seems that your niece is after a pocket-able point and shoot with generous zoom range and because of what she is intending to use it for (stopping action), shutter speed manipulation is important - hence she needs to know some basic knowledge. Don't worry so much about noise, just run the images through Neat Image and it'll be better

I only own the Fuji F72EXR, so take my advice with a grain of salt

Justin.
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Old Sep 11, 2010, 12:01 AM   #16
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not to hijack the post.

Justin, it has been a long time. How is the GF1 treating you?
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Old Sep 11, 2010, 12:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoturtle View Post
yeah, you are researching allot of different cameras all at once. It is a bit over taxing I imagine.
But I think I've learned more about photography in the last few weeks than I have in ages!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinY View Post
May I chip in? A couple of things for you to consider:
- her knowledge in photography (auto mode or will she know what settings to change)
- does she like carrying extra equipment/bag and babysitting her camera, or would she rather throw one in into her purse/jeans pocket (the camera size)
- how near/far will she be away from the stage (how much zoom she needs)
- what sort of pictures will she be taking (posed vs action; I am guessing it will be action shots)

Assuming she needs something small, auto mode and as much zoom as possible, perhaps a Canon SD4500 will be of interest?

Another option you may consider is Fuji F70/72/75EXR, though the zoom range is slightly shorter than the SD4500, it has a wider angle (28mm vs 35mm of the SD4500). The Fuji however, requires you to meddle with the settings to bring out the best in it. You may even consider the new Fuji F300EXR.

I have read that the S90/S95 do not do so well in auto mode, and its zoom length is quite short too; similar too for the LX3/LX5.

Another thing to remember, is that although the S90/95 and LX3/LX5 have F2 lenses, that is only at the wide end of things; when zoomed in (at their respective maximum zoom range), the playing field changes. Example:

S90/95 [28mm @ F2] [105mm @ F4.9]
LX3/5 [24mm @ F2] [90mm @ F3.3]
F70EXR [27mm @ F3.3] [270mm @ F5.6]
F300EXR [24mm @ F3.5] [360mm @ F5.3]
SD4500 [36mm @ F3.4] [360mm @ F5.6]
Z915 [35mm @ F3.5] [350 @ F4.8] > fuwah!!

So do consider where will she be when she is taking the picture. Either way, it seems that your niece is after a pocket-able point and shoot with generous zoom range and because of what she is intending to use it for (stopping action), shutter speed manipulation is important - hence she needs to know some basic knowledge. Don't worry so much about noise, just run the images through Neat Image and it'll be better

I only own the Fuji F72EXR, so take my advice with a grain of salt

Justin.
Justin, thanks for the info. It seems that at a longer focal length, the z915 doesn't hold up too bad, at least according to specs.

I will let my sister know about the differences in size, auto controls, etc. I really don't know what my nieces camera knowledge is, but I know she has some PP skills. Zoom isn't a big deal. She will be on stage. She will get some shots during rehearsals when she's not busy instructing. And then some during the competitions, but probably from the sidelines.

I didn't think about the size of the g11. She will want something more pocketable. She already carries around a big bag of dance stuff. And since she's going to be traveling and visiting different cities, I'm sure she'll want something for a bit of sight-seeing.

Thanks again everyone.
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Old Sep 11, 2010, 12:56 AM   #18
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Just tell you niece not to zoom when the light levels drops. She will need the widest Fstop when that happens.
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Old Sep 11, 2010, 4:41 AM   #19
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I have nothing to add. I just wanted to thank you for doing enough research to know that you won't get good low light capabilities with a tiny little sensor. Enough people ask this ridiculous question and are so insistent that the camera they want must exist that I stopped posting here.
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Old Sep 11, 2010, 11:30 AM   #20
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S/T-

I offer my apologies. I understand better now that we are both looking for solutions for the OP. Having raised 8 children, I do not see an 18 year old niece willing to carry a DSLR around, nor to have the motivation to learn and fully understand low light photography in a very short period, just as Justin mentioned.

Usually a teen is more interested in snapshots, with 4" X 6" prints, to record the memories of an event. She wants something she can easily put in her purse or handbag. My initial suggestion was the Pentax Kx, but then I thought back to our children as teens and realized that was not a very practical suggestion at all. I then revised my initial suggestion to a snap shot camera.

Again you have my apologies, I honestly wanted to see the "snap shot camera" suggestion get some consideration, based on the fact that the user will be a teenager.

Sarah Joyce
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