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Old Oct 13, 2010, 8:03 PM   #81
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Indoors, for basketball, I use the 50mm 1.8, or 85mm 1.8, at iso 1600, shutter around 1/400, ap 2.0 and get nice shots(for me as a amateur dad).
Yep. That's about right for a typical school gym. For example, I've attached a shot at ISO 3200 and F/2.8 at 1/400 second (same shutter speed that you'd get using f/2 and ISO 1600), without any color or exposure correction, taken with a Sony A500 wearing a Minolta Maxxum 135mm f/2.8 Autofocus lens using manual exposure with a custom white balance. That combo let me sit in the bleachers and get a few shots.

I stopped by a game for about 20 minutes or so earlier this year, and took some photos to get a better feel for it's performance in that type of lighting indoors using higher ISO speeds.

But, that's dramatically better lighting than you'd have in typical interiors at night (homes, restaurants, theater, etc.).

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Old Oct 13, 2010, 8:07 PM   #82
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But shooting at f2 at 1600iso will give you better noise control then shooting at 3200iso. The 1 stop in aperture does at the end out perform 1 stop in iso in the upper iso range.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 9:12 PM   #83
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Sandy-

I think that staying within your budget, improving your image quality by reducing noise and increasing high ISO capability, and getting a DSLR camera that really meets your personal needs is the real issue here. It is time to re-focus sharply on that issue.

The camera that does that with the least cost, the best image quality and the foremost use of your budget, IMO remains the Sony A-500.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 9:27 PM   #84
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But shooting at f2 at 1600iso will give you better noise control then shooting at 3200iso.
Lower noise won't help much if your photos are blurry. ;-)

If you wanted a subject to fill the frame at the same shooting distance as that last photo taken with a Sony A500 wearing a Minolta 135mm f2.8; you'd need a Canon 135mm f/2 lens and ISO 1600 with an XSi (since it's max ISO speed is ISO 1600) to get shutter speeds as fast as the Minolta 135mm f/2.8 at ISO 3200 on a Sony A500 (and a Canon 135mm f/2 is over $900 now at most vendors). ;-)

Also, as previously mentioned, gym lighting like that is dramatically better lighting than you'd have in typical interiors at night (homes, restaurants, theater, etc.). As I mentioned earlier:

Quote:
But, that's dramatically better lighting than you'd have in typical interiors at night (homes, restaurants, theater, etc.).
IOW, you're not going to get shutter speeds anywhere near that fast (1/400 second at f/2 and ISO 1600, or 1/400 second at f/2.8 and ISO 3200) in most shooting conditions indoors.

I'd spend a little bit more to get a camera with higher usable ISO speeds (Canon T1i, Nikon D5000 or D3100, Sony A500, Pentax K-x), since ISO 3200 would let you get shutter speeds twice as fast for a given Aperture and Lighting, compared to a camera model that's limited to ISO 1600.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 10:00 PM   #85
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A500 gets my vote too.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 11:15 PM   #86
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Sandy-

I think that staying within your budget, improving your image quality by reducing noise and increasing high ISO capability, and getting a DSLR camera that really meets your personal needs is the real issue here. It is time to re-focus sharply on that issue.

The camera that does that with the least cost, the best image quality and the foremost use of your budget, IMO remains the Sony A-500.

Sarah Joyce

Well I looked at these 2 images and saw:

XSi ISO 1600: http://216.18.212.226/PRODS/XSI/FULLRES/XSIhSLI1600.JPG

A500 ISO 1600:
http://216.18.212.226/PRODS/AA500/FU...1600_NR_1D.JPG

It just seems that XSi's 1600 setting is much better and cleaner.

But yes I am trying to make this work with my budget.

I saw Amazon has great sales on lenses bought with an amazon camera - quite interesting considering they do not sell any cameras I might want with those lens sale except the T2i which I cannot afford.

On another note, does anyone know where we can sell our older cameras? We are not having much luck with craigslist.

Sarah another thing, the 18-250 mm lens was the cheapest I could find on ebay. Is that a good lens? I found it strange that 18-250 would be cheaper than 18-200 or 18-270.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 12:49 AM   #87
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pentax k-r at iso 1600


and at 100%


camera goes all the way to iso 25600 for when you need to shot with the lens cap still on =)
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 2:50 AM   #88
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so the kit 18-55 and 55-250 is better than 18-250 lens?
Yes. A LOT.

Allow me to introduce you to a lens review website:

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/index.php

Look up the lenses you are considering and look carefully at the blur charts.

Assuming a Canon Rebel, and for your stated needs, which are similar to mine, I would recommend in order:

1. 18-55 IS kit lens.

2. 28mm f1.8 or 35mm f2 or 50mm f1.8. I prefer the 28mm for its fast AF, better build quality and slightly wider angle.

3. 55-250 IS (sometimes kit) lens.

There is a very good reason the 18-250 is so cheap. It's horrible. You could probably do better with a few bits of broken glass and some string and glue to make your own lens. Okay prehaps that's a bit strong, but really this is a lens for situations where there is a LOT of light.

It is also my opinion that for beginners, absolutely the worst way to learn photography is with a zoom lens. Because you end up composing the shot by twisting the zoom ring. Once you get used to doing things that way your photography will be stuck in the realm of the mediocre for ever.
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Last edited by peripatetic; Oct 14, 2010 at 2:58 AM.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 6:16 AM   #89
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I am saying if you can get away with shooting at 1600iso vs 3200iso with a 1 stop brighter lens, it will yield better results. I agree that there are time's you will need to shoot at 3200iso, at times I have shot at 1.8 at 6400iso to get the shot. Because I could not use a flash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
Lower noise won't help much if your photos are blurry. ;-)

If you wanted a subject to fill the frame at the same shooting distance as that last photo taken with a Sony A500 wearing a Minolta 135mm f2.8; you'd need a Canon 135mm f/2 lens and ISO 1600 with an XSi (since it's max ISO speed is ISO 1600) to get shutter speeds as fast as the Minolta 135mm f/2.8 at ISO 3200 on a Sony A500 (and a Canon 135mm f/2 is over $900 now at most vendors). ;-)

Also, as previously mentioned, gym lighting like that is dramatically better lighting than you'd have in typical interiors at night (homes, restaurants, theater, etc.). As I mentioned earlier:

IOW, you're not going to get shutter speeds anywhere near that fast (1/400 second at f/2 and ISO 1600, or 1/400 second at f/2.8 and ISO 3200) in most shooting conditions indoors.

I'd spend a little bit more to get a camera with higher usable ISO speeds (Canon T1i, Nikon D5000 or D3100, Sony A500, Pentax K-x), since ISO 3200 would let you get shutter speeds twice as fast for a given Aperture and Lighting, compared to a camera model that's limited to ISO 1600.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 12:14 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
I would recommend in order:

1. 18-55 IS kit lens.

2. 28mm f1.8 or 35mm f2 or 50mm f1.8. I prefer the 28mm for its fast AF, better build quality and slightly wider angle.

3. 55-250 IS (sometimes kit) lens.

It is also my opinion that for beginners, absolutely the worst way to learn photography is with a zoom lens. Because you end up composing the shot by twisting the zoom ring. Once you get used to doing things that way your photography will be stuck in the realm of the mediocre for ever.
I am curious if the 18-55 lens can be skipped all together as cost cutting since you mentioned the worst way to learn is with a zoom lens. So most of the time people use zoom is subjects that are up close. That would force me to move around to get the best shot and I could use a 55-200 or whatever lens for when I really need zoom.

Does that make any sense?

I could do that with the Sony as well.
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