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Old Oct 20, 2010, 2:14 PM   #11
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Thank you all, John G. At school plays and events we can usualy use flash, although just the built in one. Distance varies between 1 - 5 meters usually. Sports I am referring mostly to martial arts events, horseback ridding, some motoricicle shots (but could do without them) some outdoor tenis, and mostly kids dancing and running around.
Thanks again for bearing with me and helping me
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 2:31 PM   #12
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Well, kit lenses won't work for martial arts. That's getting a bit tricky - using high ISO values (3200-6400)you could use an f2.8 zoom lens (focal length dictated by the situation - a 24-70 would be appropriate for a dojo but too short if it's a tournament in a gym where a 70-200 2.8 or sigma 50-150 2.8 would be appropriate). But now you're talking about $800 or more lenes.

There are less expensive prime lens options but you're constricted as to distance. For example a 50mm 1.8 lens might be OK but it's too tight for action really close and is only good for about 15 feet distance.

Horesback riding -depends on whether it's indoors or outdoors. Outdoors in good light then you're fine with a 250mm - 300mm lens. Same with outdoor tennis. Kids dancing and running around - depends - if it's outside you'll get some shots but if movement is erratic the slow focusing of kit zoom lenses will become problematic. If it's indoors, you'll definitely need an external flash - you may find the lens(es) you buy for martial arts aren't fast enough inside your house to get the shutter speeds you need. That's why I prefer external flash indoors. My 4 year old was dancing in the living room the other night. No way would I have wanted to rely on high ISO and f1.8 apertures to get this shot:


You don't need to buy everything at once. But some people have a misconception that a DSLR is a magic point-and-shoot and they'll be able to do everything they want right out of the gate. Doesn't work that way. This shot could be taken with built-in flash, but it would be harsher. AND, I actually took about 6 shots - the recycle time on a built in flash would make that difficult to do.

So, buying 2 kit lenses will allow you to accomplish SOME of what you want, but not all of it. So, you either have to adjust the budget up or expectations down. And that's OK.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 2:49 PM   #13
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thank you, that was an impresive picture of your kid. That is the kind, I am hopping some day i will be able to get. If I decide the route of adding some more appropiate lenses (not many maybe a couple), with which camera body should I start? I know cannon has more lens options but If I might just get the kit and and two or three more, which, would have a faster AF and shutter speed?.

I think I might start seeing some light in all of this
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 3:07 PM   #14
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With canon you want a USM lens, and with a flash. Something like the ef-s 15-85mm IS USM would work nicely over the kit lens of 18-55mm. But it is a expensive lens at 700 dollars.

But seeing the light is important for indoor photos if you can use a flash. Get a good external flash, and it can make up for a smaller aperture lens like a 3.5-5.6 of the ef-s 15-85mm or pentax equivalent.

As others have mention metz, nissin, and canon for canon cameras.
Metz, pentax for a pentax camera.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 3:20 PM   #15
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to be honest with the latest cameras being able to shoot not bad images at iso 12800 to 25600 - indoor shooting even with consumer lens is becoming much more viable option even without flash

but it really is only the very latest cameras (for aps-c anyway) that can shoot that high

namely the
nikon d7000
pentax k-r
pentax k-5 (stonking iso 51200 here but that is really for emergency use only)
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 3:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John.Pattullo View Post
to be honest with the latest cameras being able to shoot not bad images at iso 12800 to 25600 - indoor shooting even with consumer lens is becoming much more viable option even without flash

but it really is only the very latest cameras (for aps-c anyway) that can shoot that high

namely the
nikon d7000
pentax k-r
pentax k-5 (stonking iso 51200 here but that is really for emergency use only)
I wouldn't plan on using 12800 for my everyday photos. Even the nikon d700 (not 7000 but 700) isn't going to get you results you want to use for everyday photos indoors. I wouldn't go into the buying experience with that as a plan.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 3:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marubex View Post
If I decide the route of adding some more appropiate lenses (not many maybe a couple), with which camera body should I start? I know cannon has more lens options but If I might just get the kit and and two or three more, which, would have a faster AF and shutter speed?.

I think I might start seeing some light in all of this
We still need more information - give some more info on the martial arts shooting situations, and the horseback riding. Let's figure out what lenses you need and then we can give you an idea what lenses are available in each system and their cost.

When you get into flash work, Nikon has the best flash system, followed by Canon and Sony. Pentax is probably weakest in that area.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 4:03 PM   #18
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horseback, mainly outdoors distance varying from 2 meters to aprox 15 meters.
Martial arts mainly in a very small (thinking 50 square meters) dojo with windows on two sides, when its dark outside it uses fluorescent (cost efficient) lights. Sometimes will use it for outside tournaments so who knows.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 4:10 PM   #19
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well thats the beauty of the newer cameras =) people been doing some tests over at pentax forums and the k5 is beating the d700 in high iso performance - now pentax seems to be able to pull abit more from sensors than nikon can but its generally accepted that the d7000 has the same sensor as the k5 so assuming with abit of work it should give comparible results from raw

check out the results here but to my eye that looks like a very useable iso 25600 to me (after processing of course)
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/p...-part-1-a.html
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 4:32 PM   #20
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It still does not matter, it will get the shot. And better then the past, but no where near what a flash and a good lens will do. I shoot at high iso all the time, because I can not use a flash allot of time. And though the k-5 is a pretty good at 12800, they still do not look as good as a 1600iso with a good flash and fast lens. So given the choice, flash and a good lens is the better way to go.
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Last edited by shoturtle; Oct 20, 2010 at 5:20 PM.
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