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Old Oct 20, 2010, 6:13 PM   #21
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John,

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree about the K-5 beating the D700. From what I've seen it is still behind. I know there's a desire that when your camera brand comes out with a new camera, people in that system want it to be the best thing since sliced bread. Not having a horse in the race, so to speak, I don't see the same thing those wishful eyes in pentax forums see. It's very in-vogue right now in pentax forums to suggest the K-5 does everything a full frame can do. Again, from the shots I've seen from independent testers I just don't see it.

But, it's pointless - as shoturtle mentioned, it's still poor vs. using a flash. And that's all that really matters for this discussion.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 7:57 PM   #22
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oh i dont know the tests i've seen are pretty close in terms of high iso performance - certainly when you consider the d700 is full frame vs aps-c, i think its kinda remarkable they can compete at all and certainly when judgements even slightly biased ones can come down on the side of the underdog - and its not even just high iso - some tests done show that the sensor has the dynmaic range to match full frame too

and yes there is a certain happy feeling seeing the brand i've bought into producing a good camera but i try not to get to caught up in it - i got the pentax system for thought out reasons and should those needs be met elsewhere - there is always ebay for all my current gear and again i've descided not to get the k-5 dispite all the bandwagons begging to be jumped on but i am gonna wait and see what appears next year - but i do think the days of noticibly better performance from full frame sensors is rapidly disappearing - and that thinner dof for equivalent focal length just wont be enough reason to go FF soon - then again shall wait to see the d800 before i lay down to many conclusions =)

regardless though i do think that the high iso performance of modern aps-c cameras is helping those consumer grade lenses go further (assuming they are optically sharp and without to much CA or distortions) since the very wide apertures aren't so critical these days - sure love to have them but dont always want to pay for them - this is especially true for telephoto lenses - wont need to look on with envy at 500mm f4 lenses since my trusty sigma 150-500mm will be able to do the job just fine just with iso up a couple of notches
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 7:59 PM   #23
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honestly it detracts form the OP's question and needs with the k-5. It is a good camera, and should be in it's own thread.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 8:04 PM   #24
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For great shots (like John's), you are going to need some expensive lenses if you are shooting in a dimly lit dojo or gym. So, maybe we should ask Marubex what his/her budget is and then figure out the best gear for the money.

I took some pictures of a nighttime college football game with a Pentax K-x and a 55-300mm Pentax lens at ISO 3200. The shutter speed was between I/200 and 1/400 of a second. Most of the pictures were good in my view, but they would never be good enough for a newspaper's sports page.

So, Marubex, how much do you want to spend on this camera and accompanying lenses?
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 8:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoturtle View Post
honestly it detracts form the OP's question and needs with the k-5. It is a good camera, and should be in it's own thread.
your right of course - really just mentioned it as a example of newer cameras abilities covering up the shortcomings in some slower but otherwise good glass

as for flash well never been a huge fan off it -its great for some things like a little fill in flash during the day when trying to compete with bright daylight etc and when you can get it off the camera - but on camera flash tends to give a rather unappealing flat look with ugly shadows so to actually lighting something up (if allowed to use flash that is) i think its something to be avoided for snaps

so if its to dark for pushing iso to where you camera produces images of acceptable quality then yeah fast lens would be my next choice - depending on the focal length your after could easily be cheaper than an external flash unit anyway
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 8:29 PM   #26
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thank you all,
Robbo to answer your question, I would like to keep it under 1,500 and if could find something for less than that would be best. I am open to build up a system but for now my budget is of 1,500 for the body and 1, or 2 lenses...
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 8:44 PM   #27
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if you are looking for something like what john posted for the indoors, a flash is really need. So from your budget put 180-230 for the flash.

As indoor sports in not that high, I would hold off on that for now. But the lenses john recommend form sigma will work for both pentax and canon as they have them in both ef and k mounts. But they are expensive.

The k-x kit lens does focus faster then the canon kit lens as the af motor in the k-x body works quicker then the motor in the canon kit lens. But if you opt for the lens I mention for the t2i. You would have a very good lens, but very price with the 15-85mm IS USM. But it will have no problem with AF speed. As it is very fast, faster then the k-x with the kit lens. So with the flash it would work really well for indoor kids chasing. And actually it is a very useful range for a walk around lens, better then the 18-55.

Also nissin make a very good flash for the canon that is sub 180 dollars, that is really good. The pentax, to get a good one, they will be more. Metz and the pentax flash would be the better flashes. Metz also makes a canon version. Nice thing about metz and nissin is that they can be user firmware upgradable for any upgrades.

Big aperture lens for the blur background, call bokeh, 2.8 zooms are one option. The other is a 1.8 or 1.4 lens. Canon has both a 1.8 and 1.4 50mm lens. The 1.8 is about 95 dollars, the 1.4 is about 350 dollars and it is also USM so it focus really fast. Pentax has only a 50 1.4 for about 360 dollars.

Now the long zoom, the kit zooms the pentax has the AF speed edge. Sharpness is about the same with the ef-s 55-250, but it is slightly shorter in range about 45mm when you count the crop factors. But if you go with the upgraded canon lens ef 70-300 IS USM it will out focus the pentax kit zoom and non kit verison. And the ef 70-300 is 550 new.
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Last edited by shoturtle; Oct 20, 2010 at 8:48 PM.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 8:51 PM   #28
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you invisage keeping the camera for quite a while? or do you think you want to move up to newer and better cameras in the coming years?

if your gonna keep the body for a while i would suggest getting the best camera possible for your budget

if your gonna want to start easy with entry level cameras and move up i would suggest investing in the lenses and getting a cheaper body

but certainly worth considering would be nikon d7000 at $1499
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D7000-DX...7621774&sr=8-2

or
pentax k-r at $999 leaving another $500 for a good lens
http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-K-r-18-...7622158&sr=1-5
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 9:02 PM   #29
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You really do not get any less of a camera going with a k-x, k-r or the t2i. The d7000 will blow by your budget, without even adding a zoom. And these camera will grow with you. Most people will not use the most of their abilities as is.

So if you want a better body, that is a different story. Do not discount the growth and performance ability because of their prices.
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Old Oct 23, 2010, 12:27 AM   #30
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thanks for all your answers, they shed light from so many different angles and experiences. I still have some time before taking the plunge about two or three weeks. From some other posts, there seem to be a lot o people complaining about Pentax's AF system and tracking, saying it trails behind the competition by ages. Has anyone have any experience with this? Care to comment? Since it is one of my top priorities with fast moving kids!!
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