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Old Oct 31, 2010, 8:19 AM   #1
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Default Need a Second Camera Alongside T2i

So, I already have a Canon T2i, but the shutter breaking has caused me to realize that I need a second camera, possibly to function as my first, or main.

I was thinking of either a 7D or a 5D Mark II.

The 5DMKII has better quality, no doubt, but it's useless for the two things I need it for most - Time-Lapses and Gigapixels.
It's useless for Time-Lapses, because for that, I need to have the widest lens with as little distortion as possible. That's why I have the Sigma 8-16mm on the T2i. And going to B&H, I found that the 5D's closest would be 14mm. The 8mm turns into 12mm, so it is still superior.
It's useless for Gigapixels because, well, the zoom length is hindered by 60%. On a 600mm lens, I get 973mm on the T2i (and 7D) and only the original 600mm on the 5D.

But there are things the 5D has that the 7D doesn't.
Most people I know buy the 7D because it shoots 50p, 60p and most importantly 29.97p. So, for me, that doesn't matter because my T2i does the same, which means I could get a 5D and be covered.

All I can think of, is that the 5D would be useful for something very specific; it couldn't shoot something that's fast, because it's clocked in at 3.9fps, almost the same as the T2i. And it couldn't shoot something very slow, like clouds, because it's focal length would produce an inferior (in size) Gigapixel.
So.. it would only be good for, say, shooting a slow train pass by at night, from a few hundred feet away, at a high ISO.. and I just don't know too many of those.

I suppose it could also be good for portraits, but I really don't believe the quality on the 5D would be THAT much better than the 7D, and the extra 3MP aren't really that far missed.
So, I'm just hoping someone could fill me in to something I haven't realized yet or.. just agree with me buying the 7D.

Thanks.

EDIT:

I looked for some comparison shots and I'm shocked.

Is the 5D really THAT much sharper than the 7D??

http://benjacobsenphoto.com/blog/wp-...9-33-35-pm.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/...954783d7_o.jpg

Last edited by Track; Oct 31, 2010 at 8:42 AM.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 10:23 AM   #2
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with the more pixels of the 5D, you will need lenses that can resolve enough light to maximized the 5D's image quality. In other words L series lenses. Also none of your crop sensor lens, ie DC lenses form sigma will work. So you are going to have to look at the 16-25 2.8L adding another 1500 to the price tag.


The sharpness will be there with the 5d or 7d depending on the lens being used, but the 5d does have higher image quality.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 11:00 AM   #3
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I think you need to set your priorities and take it from there, they are different beasts with different benefits.

If you are shooting at the lower ISOs all the time the 7D is very good, the 5DmkII is usually a stop or so ahead in noise making it better at the higher end. The rendition from the 5DmkII is amazing, the 7D is good too but you can't compete with sensor size.

I should add that I have both of these (they are the only 2 dSLRs that I have with me in Egypt as the rest are back in the UK) as I decided they gave the best combined mix of quality (5DmkII) and speed (7D). This means I can shoot all my weddings while here etc and also sports events as well.

Now for you, if you are not shooting people where the shallower dof from the 5DmkII really adds to the look then probably the 7D (or even 60D) could be what you want.

I've not met anyone doing Gigapixel photos so would be interested to see some of yours if you have links to them.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 12:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by shoturtle View Post
...with the more pixels of the 5D, you will need lenses that can resolve enough light to maximized the 5D's image quality.
I think you'll find the opposite is true in most cases when comparing higher resolution APS-C size sensors with higher resolution full frame sensors. Keep in mind that a model like the 7D has a lot of pixels packed into an APS-C Size sensor, so pixel density is much higher. For example, the 7D has 5.4MP/cm2, while the higher resolution 5D Mk II has only 2.4MP/cm2.

As a result, the 7D places much higher demands on the lens quality needed (resolving power in line pairs per millimeter) to take full advantage of it's sensor. If you look at some of the tests of lenses on both models, you'll see what I mean.

For example, this is a test of the new Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM II on a 7D:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/..._c16/page4.asp

This is the same lens on a 5D Mk II (performs much better on the 5D):
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/..._c16/page5.asp

Or, look at the 100mm f/2.8L Macro on a 50D:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/..._c16/page3.asp

Then, see how much better it works on a 5D Mk II:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/..._c16/page4.asp

You'll see the same type of thing comparing the same lenses on models like the Nikon D300 (APS-C size sensor) and D3 (larger full frame sensor), even though they're both 12MP models.

For example, here's a Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 II on a Nikon D300 (pixel density of 3.3MP/cm2):
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/..._n15/page4.asp

Here's the same lens on a D3 (much lower pixel density of 1.4MP/cm2). It performs much better on the full frame model:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/..._n15/page5.asp

In other words, because the pixels are packed much closer together on an APS-C size sensor, the lens resolving power needs to be greater to take full advantage of the sensor's resolution. I've seen the same type of thing happen with higher resolution models within a given brand using APS-C size sensors. For example, the original Konica Minolta 18-70mm kit lens (carried over with a Sony brand name later), was "good enough" for a 6MP sensor.

But, when higher resolution models came along, there became a point when the 18-70mm lens simply couldn't resolve well enough so that the higher resolution sensor offered any benefit with it (as in comparing images from a model like the 10MP Sony A300 versus the 14MP Sony A350 when wearing that lens), due to higher pixel density. So, if you wanted better results with the higher density sensor, you needed a better lens than the 18-70mm kit lens Sony was shipping with it (and Sony did redesign the kit lenses used on later cameras, switching to a newer 18-55mm design). Here's a review page showing a good example of that problem:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/So..._results.shtml

Sure, if you're using a full frame lens on an APS-C size sensor and the lens has soft corners, that problem may be more pronounced on a full frame model (since the full frame model is using more of the image circle). But, if you're looking at things like overall performance, sharpness (especially towards the center of the lens), contrast, etc., the camera with lower pixel density is usually going to perform much better given a lens with equivalent resolving power, even if the total number of pixels is higher (as in comparing models like the 7D and 5D Mk II).
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 12:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark1616 View Post
I think you need to set your priorities and take it from there, they are different beasts with different benefits.

If you are shooting at the lower ISOs all the time the 7D is very good, the 5DmkII is usually a stop or so ahead in noise making it better at the higher end. The rendition from the 5DmkII is amazing, the 7D is good too but you can't compete with sensor size.

I should add that I have both of these (they are the only 2 dSLRs that I have with me in Egypt as the rest are back in the UK) as I decided they gave the best combined mix of quality (5DmkII) and speed (7D). This means I can shoot all my weddings while here etc and also sports events as well.

Now for you, if you are not shooting people where the shallower dof from the 5DmkII really adds to the look then probably the 7D (or even 60D) could be what you want.

I've not met anyone doing Gigapixel photos so would be interested to see some of yours if you have links to them.
No offense, Mark, but I don't think I agree with you.

From what I've seen, the 5D and 7D (and thus probably T2i) have almost identical quality.

And so, because the 5D has just so many disadvantages, I think I'll get the 7D.

Although, they're both equally useless to someone with a T2i, I find.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 1:36 PM   #6
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No offense, Mark, but I don't think I agree with you.

From what I've seen, the 5D and 7D (and thus probably T2i) have almost identical quality.

And so, because the 5D has just so many disadvantages, I think I'll get the 7D.

Although, they're both equally useless to someone with a T2i, I find.
No offense taken.

Which part did you disagree with as I think I confirmed a lot of what you said in your first post. At the end of my post I suggested the 7D or 60D.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 7:06 PM   #7
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No offense taken.

Which part did you disagree with as I think I confirmed a lot of what you said in your first post. At the end of my post I suggested the 7D or 60D.
The part where you make the 5D out to be so much better, when it's only slightly so.

A 60D wouldn't give me anything that the T2i can't, so it's not an option.
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Old Nov 1, 2010, 11:06 AM   #8
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I'd suggest someone interested in the Canon 60D/7D/5DM2 and the trade-offs should read Kirk Tuck's blog from May 30, 2010 forward to present. He approaches this from his business perspective and market. The first post is his business descision to acquire a 5DM2 (http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com...-personal.html) through his additional aquisitions of a 7D and a 60D if you follow his blog to the present. His professional and personal requirements may or may not be applicable to anyone situation but even as an Oly user I find it interesting.

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