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Old Mar 3, 2011, 5:34 PM   #1
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Default RESEARCH superzoom - pnsonic FZ100,fujifilm Hs20,nikon p500,sony HX100V 550d

hello guys,

I have never in my life fallen in such big research before buying a new stuff.
Now it is more than month with every day reading for more than 8 hours about cameras about new digital camera, reviews, testing, comparison I decided to open thread to find a conclusion about Best digital superzoom digital camera.
and now I really need help to finish it in buy the best product.
I want a digital camera that can offer me the best image/ video quality with the most features

Before this I was like: “this time I will go in the shop in just buy canon sx30, because I had it before and now it has the biggest zoom”  then I found this website and it became more difficult.
I have made research using websites:
http://www.dpreview.com/
http://snapsort.com/,
http://www.imaging-resource.com
DCResource.com
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camera-buying-guide/
http://www.trustedreviews.com
http://www.steves-digicams.com
http://www.pcworld.com

Why there is not one digital camera that has all important MUST HAVE FEAUTES or everything that other competitive cameras have?
Why every camera that has something good just doesn’t have another very important thing. (like Nikon p500 -f/3.5)
- Money is not important

- great IMAGE quality (colors, sharpness,…)
- Must be superzoom (but also around 16x is OK)
- I preffer CMOS sensor type (less chromatic aberration also in video)
- min - Wide aperture f/2.8
- hd min 720 p @ 30fps
- min 26 wide angel
- must have high speed movies
- long exposures - min 15
- fast continuous shooting - min 4fps
- MUST not have Weaknesses in important things


questions



1. I already read everything comparing specifications, so I need here more talking about image quality, comparing feedback from users, (things that are not written on specifications – like on s95 optical zoom doesn’t work while recording… ) So what is the best choose? Which digital camera should be the best for me…or should I just take DSLR camera (I just want one objective-not changing) , if I am already so into (buying the best). But also DSLR camera I see then doesn’t have some features like (high speed movies), then I am lost again…always something missing

2. is really that important:
- CMOS and CCD (because this filter in search really takes me away a lot of cameras)?!
- image stabilization - lens or senzor shift?
- boost iso? – what is the difference with normal iso maximum light sensitivity?



3 Why…If I watch reviews there is always in Weaknesses something that makes me like »oh, then I will not buy this camera«

4. is better to wait some new models? What is coming? I don’t need to run buying something quick..

like .. i hear that there is new Sony HX100 that has also 3d photos...
so is there any new trending camera that is close also with this specifications above and offers something new????????????



5. my opinion – what I found by reading (but I am amateur)
(sx30 – love canon and also zoom, but to much Chromatic aberration but better sharpness, low image quality, not have cmos)

Hs20 – has almost the best written specifications, but there is a lot of disappointed users on quality,

Nikon p500 (biggest zoom, but they say image quality is not so good and it has f/3.5 ?? I just dont get it why..

Fz100 I read a lot of congrats about IQual. And also specifications are great with features, but zoom is not so big, but still OK, maybe not so detailed and great sharpnes

HX100V - new, has gps, has 3d recording





But if I would have to choose just by reading specifications if wouldn’t be so hard but this would be just by amateur reading, with no experience..

That’s why I need you great experts to help me out of this


Oh yeah and… I am not professional cameraman, I will use it just for hobby, but I adore nice photos (nature, party, portraits!!, because memories means a lot to me



Thanks so much, I really hope you will help me out of here,
I owe you a deep debt of gratitude!!!



And I forgot to say, I love dpreview.com there are so many people that like to help each other…

Thanks again, and I am sure, that we will find the best one!!!!!!!
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Old Mar 3, 2011, 6:20 PM   #2
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Well since you want 4 fps burst, you will have to get a CMOS, which you prefer anyway. Unfortunately, I don't think you can have "great" sharpness with a CMOS-based camera. I think the best of the bunch in current models is the FZ100. I'm not going to speculate (much) on new models that haven't been released or were released too recently to have any substantial info on. Historically, Panasonic and Canon have ruled the bridge camera segment and for good reason.
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Old Mar 3, 2011, 7:38 PM   #3
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boula-

What are you shooting that you need a minimum burst rate of 4fps?? That is the sticking point in your specifications list. That radically reduces your options. Not once in your post did you tell us what you are currently or want to shoot in the future that requires these specifications?? And finally what is the budget? That will also govern the selection as well. Is there also a need for numerically high ISO shooting? When you use your camera, do you use the fully automatic mode, or do you use manual settings??

With a little more information, I think that we can narrow the selection field measurably. Just so you do not have the impression that I am a "sidewalk engineer," without a knowledgeable background, I am a professional digital camera instructor, and please take a look at the number of posts that I have made just on this Forum: I am closing in rapidly on 18,000 posts.

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Old Mar 4, 2011, 7:12 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtclimber View Post
boula-

What are you shooting that you need a minimum burst rate of 4fps?? That is the sticking point in your specifications list. That radically reduces your options. Not once in your post did you tell us what you are currently or want to shoot in the future that requires these specifications?? And finally what is the budget? That will also govern the selection as well. Is there also a need for numerically high ISO shooting? When you use your camera, do you use the fully automatic mode, or do you use manual settings??

With a little more information, I think that we can narrow the selection field measurably. Just so you do not have the impression that I am a "sidewalk engineer," without a knowledgeable background, I am a professional digital camera instructor, and please take a look at the number of posts that I have made just on this Forum: I am closing in rapidly on 18,000 posts.

Sarah Joyce


MY ANSWERS ON PREVIOUS QUESTIONS..

why min 4fps?

- it is not like, I need it every day for my job, but I just think it is a great feature.(some times if I will go on match and i dont want to miss something)


what I shoot and why this specifications?

i wrote above " I am not professional cameraman, I will use it just for hobby, but I adore nice photos (nature, party, portraits!!, because memories means a lot to me"
and i want this specifications i want just because i am pretentious user, and I want to buy just one great camera for all occasion in my next 10 years.and you never know, what you will need.

but I will have it for every day in my personal bag for hobby, if I see something.


what is the budget?

as I wrote the money doesn't matter. but I can go to max 1000€ if there is something that has all this and is even better. but i really don't want to have dslr if then i would have to change objectibe or to have big photo bag.


auto or manual?

i think 70% of photo are one auto or on P, just 30% on M, when i would like to do something special.



yes I believe you are professional and thank you so much for help, I really hope I will make a great buy, that i will never say after few months: "oh, why i didnt know this before, I would then preffer to buy another one" as a lot of time happens, but this time it will not

Last edited by boula; Mar 4, 2011 at 12:31 PM.
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Old Mar 4, 2011, 11:36 AM   #5
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boula-

What subjects you shoot are important, because a super zoom camera does not make a good sports camera. That venue is best handled by those very expensive DSLR cameras with the huge lens that you see at the Olympics and at major football games.

What kind of budget you have set aside is important as you will need some money for cards and a case, etc.

Why Auto or Manual? Because certain cameras are more adapted to, or have special features that make a manual operation much easier.

The Panasonic FZ100 is a good camera, but it is numerically ISO limited. The simple truth is that photo taken at ISO 400 (the maximum recommended ISO setting by most actual users) provides good image quality, but with visible noise, and only 5" X 7" prints at best and computer use is recommended by most users, if indeed image quality is a real priority.

The Fuji HS20 is a good, but surely not perfect camera. It does indeed have a long zoom reach of 30X optical zoom, but in my experience, the added small. and sometimes multiple manual settings need for EXR operation, are not adapted well to your 70% Automatic work flow HS10 photo quality is good, but notice the "added element" in my settings description in the attached photo below.



The Nikon P500, at least looking at the paper specification list looks to be impressive. However, the camera has not even reached the dealer's shelves yet and we have only seen previews, no professional reviews, or user reviews of the P500. And not a single photo has been posted. So we are waiting. The best review that I have seen on the P500 has been from Imaging Resource at this link:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/CP500/CP500A.HTM

The Sony HX100 falls into the very same category as the Nikon P500. It is not on dealer's shelves, no professional reviews, no user reviews, and only previews. Here is a link to the one provided by Steve:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camer...0v-review.html

Now the final camera that you seem to list in the title of your original post is: "550d." Canon does have a DSLR model called the "550d." Were you referring to the Canon 550D, a DSLR camera? I don't think that you are, as you have specifically said in you #2 post that: "...but i really don't want to have dslr if then i would have to change objectibe or to have big photo bag."

Super zoom cameras have always been a special interest to me. So, over the years, I have owned many of them. I realize that shooting styles can be very different. However, I have never had the need for a 4fps shot or higher. The Sony HX1 camera can shoot 10 fps, and I own one, but I have never used it for anything other than a hand held sweep panorama. The Sony HX1, the forerunner of the yet to be released, Sony HX100, has a Sony G class lens, which is Sony's highest lens rating, and is no slouchb bat all as the next attached photo demonstrates quite well. The HX1 is still available used and is selling for around $(US)300.00.



I have also be a longtime user of Panasonic's FZ series super zoom cameras. In terms of Panasonic, I began with the FZ1. In December 2010, I was in the market for a new FZ model. My possible choices were the FZ35, the FZ40, and the FZ100. Like you, after much research, I selected the FZ40 model, not the FZ100 model. I felt that the FZ100 model was not going to provide me with the image quality that I desired as the next attached photo show rather well. This is a photo of our family doctor, taken in his office during a regular appointment, without flash. In fact the ISO setting was ISO 3200, an ISO setting that, had the photo been taken with the FZ100 would have shown a whole lot of visible noise and reduced image quality.



Some super zoom cameras, such as the Panasonic FZ28, are much better specified to handle low light shooting where no flash can be used. That is why I asked about what ISO setting do you normally use. The attached photo above made with the FZ40, and this attached photo below, both required a numerically higher ISO setting to capture the photo.



Some cameras, like the Canon S3 and S5 are famous for their image quality, but have some really restrictive numerical ISO settings. Take for example, the S3 model had the highest level of image quality at settings of ISO 200 and below. Here is a good example of what the S3 could do when the ISO setting was held down to ISO 200 and less.



So, Boula, I think that you can better appreciate why the subject matter you are consistently taking does come into play when making a camera choice.

Some older cameras are notable as well. The Sony H9 had 15X optical zoom, but great image quality. Now 15X zoom is below your "16X or better" specification. Is that 16X or better specification "a line drawn in the sand?" The attachment below is a simple informal portrait of my husband taken in Automatic, using just the H9's built in flash unit. I am posting this photo to show you that certain cameras do very well indeed in the Automatic Mode.



And if you want brilliant color both the Panasonic FZ35 and the Sony H9 do very well indeed. The next attachment is from the FZ35 now selling at a record low price of $(US)214.00



The next attached photo is from the Sony H9 again:



So what is going to be your strategy? Are you going to wait for those super zoom cameras that have not yet reached the market yet, and on which we have no professional reviews, or user reviews? Or, do you wish to see the selection process speeded up, and make a selection of what is currently available?

Have a great day!

Sarah Joyce
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Old Mar 4, 2011, 12:31 PM   #6
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In my daily reading today I came across the very first Sony HX100 informal review at:

http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/s...uestras,1_7343

Using a Google translation, I think that it is interesting to read one of the reviewer's concluding comments:

"Afer a quick look, it seems clear that the noise and, above all, excess of processing of the images return as the stumbling block of this new generation of capture devices."

That is close to our previous discussion, Boula.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Mar 4, 2011, 5:55 PM   #7
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Default HX100v vs. HS20EXR

Just like Boula - Im quite interested in getting a "super zoom just for fun'" cam
that I can take great pics and good looking movies with. And play a lot with also.
So therefore I too, am very curious about some reviews of those two cams.
Disappointing to read that the Sony got a negative comment on that Spanish magazine regarding noise...
But then theres the Fuji... maybe they have come up with a solution to noise (and has hopefully learned something with the HS10) SO that we will get a HS20 that just performs Greeeeat.
But then again - they also have to be in touch with the "beat of the time" - in other words: modern thinking (megapixel race) OR loose customers (after all most customers doesnt know diddlidoo about IQ of a cam...)
Present I got a SX30 - very slow, requires good light in order too shoot well, BUT the wellknown Canon "grip" and buttons - feels gooood to handle.
Have also owned a Nikon S8100 - very low light for a decent shot, BUT all shots, no matter the light, were blurry, movies were very bad, and macroshoooting was very bad and blurry - as if Nikon had forgot to build a image stabilizer in the cam. SO I sold it after 14 days !!
Are presently the VERY happy owner of a Samsung WB2000(TL350 in the US)
IT is a fantastic cam with a very good low light handle with very little noise, remarkable macro shooting and VERY fast to focus...
The best pocket cam I have ever had.
(10Mp BSI CMOS, 5x zoom, F2.4, 1920x1080)

OK now I have wrote enough - hope its OK.
Hi from Claus, Denmark - on a friday, almost midnight.
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Old Mar 12, 2011, 5:27 PM   #8
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waw... some great answers there..

but... here it is what I see fz100 + great low light shot = my ideal


Today I just decide that there just haven't came out yet a camera that I want. the closest what i need was fz100. It has almost everything, but just not the most important (what a lot of you already know --> IQ of photos, and to much noise when shooting in low light.

That is why I today, after more than one month of every day research, just decided that I will not buy any photo camera yet.


I will buy camera - When there will be out something like


FZ100 -->superzoom camera with lots of features (I prefer CMOS, high speed videos,more fps,full HD, wide aperture max 2,8; max 25 wide angel, long exposures, flip out, mic).*

and great image quality also in low light with more ISO

No superzoom camera didn't convince me to buy it. Every one is just missing something important for me.

BUT I JUST LOVE LOVE LOVE superzoom, because of birds and so on...

So when there will me something like this, tell me for now I will stop reading everyday about it.

and I will just use LX5 that I bought for my girlfriend. (i hope she will not then think, that was present for her actually present for me hehe


but you see, I am absolutely sure that this was the best buy for compact camera and that LX5 can not disappointing us.

so I want the same filling for next buy - superzoom camera!!

so what you think about that, did I make good decision?? and when you think something like this will be released?
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Old Mar 12, 2011, 8:34 PM   #9
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Boula-

The Panasonic LX5 is a perfect example of why there are certain demands of inherent camera design. The LX5 is a real performer, but as I understand it, the LX5's lack of a reasonable "super-zoom" capability is only a "half-way" solution for your desires.

The LX5 has a larger than normal imager, which enables very good image quality. But a design that employs that specific larger imager, also requires a lens with a much shorter focal length. The result is that you have a camera with very good image quality, but with no real "super zoom" qualities.

At first glance, it would seem that all we need to do is to use a larger than normal imager in a good super zoom camera. This where we have to take into consideration good camera design as well. If we were to use that "larger than normal" imager, the required lens would have to be substantially larger in diameter, making the camera physically unbalanced. The Sony NEX camera series faces that very same design problem. Sony used a "larger than normal" aps-c sized imager, therefore the lens selection is both limited and very physically large in size. The result is that the NEX cameras look like they are cameras with a huge lens mounted on a very small camera body. Their largest lens is an 18-200mm lens that only produces 11.1X optical zoom, and it is monstrous in appearance when mounted on the NEX cameras. It is so large, Sony prefers that not to show photos of it for publicity purposes.

Panasonic's FZ100 therefore was a design compromise. It had to use a small imager. Otherwise, the needed lens would have been a real monster, and a camera that was physically too large and too heavy to use comfortably. Sony had run into that "too large and too heavy" problem before with their R-1 model which used an aps-c sized imager, but had its lens that had to be restricted to just 5X optical zoom to reduce the weight and size to a reasonable size. The lens, a Carl Zeiss design lens, was a great lens, but limited in the zoom it could produce, just to reduce the size and the weight of the R1 camera. The photo below illustrates very well the problem with the Sony R1 camera. The photo is of the R1 (the larger camera) with the Panasonic ZS series camera tucked in next to the R1 camera. Notice the difference in size between the lens size on each camera. And mind you that is only a 5X optical zoom lens used on the the larger R1 camera.

If the lens on the the R1 was instead just a 20X optical zoom lens, that lens size on the R1 would have to be enlarged approximately 400%!



So, perhaps you better understand how camera design limitations really do impact heavily on what the camera will look like, how big it will weigh, and how physically large it will be when held in hand. It is for those reasons that the Sony HX100 and Panasonic FZ100 are at their current limitations, without a very good prospect for a short term improvement that will produce a super zoom camera with a "larger than normal" imager.

So your strategy, to just hold off on your decision and to wait for further or future camera developments is probably a very wise decision.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Mar 12, 2011, 8:55 PM   #10
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waaw...thanks for answer again.

so sarah,
you that is better to wait....but do you think this will be in next year or two or not so close?

what will be the cca price of it? under 700€?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mtclimber View Post
Boula-

The Panasonic LX5 is a perfect example of why there are certain demands of inherent camera design. The LX5 is a real performer, but as I understand it, the LX5's lack of a reasonable "super-zoom" capability is only a "half-way" solution for your desires.

The LX5 has a larger than normal imager, which enables very good image quality. But a design that employs that specific larger imager, also requires a lens with a much shorter focal length. The result is that you have a camera with very good image quality, but with no real "super zoom" qualities.

At first glance, it would seem that all we need to do is to use a larger than normal imager in a good super zoom camera. This where we have to take into consideration good camera design as well. If we were to use that "larger than normal" imager, the required lens would have to be substantially larger in diameter, making the camera physically unbalanced. The Sony NEX camera series faces that very same design problem. Sony used a "larger than normal" aps-c sized imager, therefore the lens selection is both limited and very physically large in size. The result is that the NEX cameras look like they are cameras with a huge lens mounted on a very small camera body. Their largest lens is an 18-200mm lens that only produces 11.1X optical zoom, and it is monstrous in appearance when mounted on the NEX cameras. It is so large, Sony prefers that not to show photos of it for publicity purposes.

Panasonic's FZ100 therefore was a design compromise. It had to use a small imager. Otherwise, the needed lens would have been a real monster, and a camera that was physically too large and too heavy to use comfortably. Sony had run into that "too large and too heavy" problem before with their R-1 model which used an aps-c sized imager, but had its lens that had to be restricted to just 5X optical zoom to reduce the weight and size to a reasonable size. The lens, a Carl Zeiss design lens, was a great lens, but limited in the zoom it could produce, just to reduce the size and the weight of the R1 camera. The photo below illustrates very well the problem with the Sony R1 camera. The photo is of the R1 (the larger camera) with the Panasonic ZS series camera tucked in next to the R1 camera. Notice the difference in size between the lens size on each camera. And mind you that is only a 5X optical zoom lens used on the the larger R1 camera.

If the lens on the the R1 was instead just a 20X optical zoom lens, that lens size on the R1 would have to be enlarged approximately 400%!



So, perhaps you better understand how camera design limitations really do impact heavily on what the camera will look like, how big it will weigh, and how physically large it will be when held in hand. It is for those reasons that the Sony HX100 and Panasonic FZ100 are at their current limitations, without a very good prospect for a short term improvement that will produce a super zoom camera with a "larger than normal" imager.

So your strategy, to just hold off on your decision and to wait for further or future camera developments is probably a very wise decision.

Sarah Joyce
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