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Old Jan 5, 2013, 5:53 AM   #21
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So do i go a Sony Nex f3 with single lens, or a C3 with the 2 kit lenses, case and spare battery, or for the same price the newer F3 with single lens and brand new. The flip up screen on the F3 doesn't seem too bad.
Get one that you can add a hotshot flash. I have shot photos where 3200 iso was not high enough in small intimate setting without a flash.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 6:26 AM   #22
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I'm replying to be fair to the E-PM1. Franky, I think my expectations were too high. Looking at low light comparisons in reviews is not the same as shooting in real low light environments. Below is the kind of venues I shoot. Small intimate clubs with mixed low light. I was hoping that I might be able to replace my DSLR with this less obtrusive camera. This shot is at ISO 3200 at 1/200 with manual white balance (white balance is definitely one of the weaker features of the E-PM1). It certainly isn't terrible and beats a point and shoot hands down. I didn't expect noise reduction to take away so many details. I can shoot at a lower shutter speed and use a lot of fps, but that is just so hit and miss. This club had really bad lighting, so I suppose I shouldn't complain. I have since discovered that the Olympus 17mm f2.8 has a reputation for softness at the edges and you certainly can see it in this shot. Another lens might give much better results. I got the camera and the lens in like new condition for $225, so I have no complaints in giving it a shot. I haven't decided whether the camera is worth putting money into a higher level lens.
Hi PBoerger,
Not sure if this is of interest to you, but have you ever thought of using 35mm film lenses or what are often called legacy lenses. There are many very fine fast lenses available at places such as KEH.com or B&H Photo. for relatively little money. The caveat is that they require an adapter and you would have to use manual focus.Adapters made by Rainbow or Fotodiox are readily available on Amazon and vary between 20 to 50 dollars. For low light situations without flash. Some great lenses to use would be fast primes such as: Minolta ROKKOR 50mm f1.4 MD lens, Konica 50mm f1.7AR lens. Lenses such as these are very sharp, produce really fine results and cost between 15 to 75dollars depending on condition.

What is required from the operator is the willingness to work on focusing skills and managing settings.

P.S. 35mm Zoom lenses for film cameras tend to not work nearly as well as primes.

Zig
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 4:56 PM   #23
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Hi PBoerger,
Not sure if this is of interest to you, but have you ever thought of using 35mm film lenses or what are often called legacy lenses. There are many very fine fast lenses available at places such as KEH.com or B&H Photo. for relatively little money. The caveat is that they require an adapter and you would have to use manual focus.Adapters made by Rainbow or Fotodiox are readily available on Amazon and vary between 20 to 50 dollars. For low light situations without flash. Some great lenses to use would be fast primes such as: Minolta ROKKOR 50mm f1.4 MD lens, Konica 50mm f1.7AR lens. Lenses such as these are very sharp, produce really fine results and cost between 15 to 75dollars depending on condition.

What is required from the operator is the willingness to work on focusing skills and managing settings.

P.S. 35mm Zoom lenses for film cameras tend to not work nearly as well as primes.

Zig
Shoturtle, so you reckon the C3 without pop up flash line on f3 but with the hotshoe option on top ? Do sony make decent after market flash to fit their Propriety connection ? I think the F3 also has a hotshoe connection ? I know their later models can fit the same view finders etc as the Pen series.

Zig - Have you used these lenses you mention with the Pen series ? The only reviews i ever see are the 20mm 1/7f Panny.

Last edited by vxcalais; Jan 5, 2013 at 5:13 PM.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 5:20 PM   #24
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There are couple of good aftermarket options for the sony. You can use a metz flash, something like the metz 44 AF-1 for sony. It is not as large as other dslr flash. And the nex uses the same flash system as their dslr.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 5:32 PM   #25
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PS

If you go with m4/3 like the epm1, same flash. They make an olympus version.

Just to put the low light performance into prospective. The epm1 is 2 generation old. The newer m4/3 like the epl5 is allot better then the epm1 in low light.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 5:49 PM   #26
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Here is a quick sample why for indoor, a flash is the better option. first taken with the available light, the second with a metz 44 AF-1 where I adjusted the power and bounce it to avoid flash wash. The second shot is allot clearer. Taken with my epl1.

The flash also does a better job if you know how to deploy it. That is why I said get a camera with a hotshoe.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 6:23 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by vxcalais View Post
Shoturtle, so you reckon the C3 without pop up flash line on f3 but with the hotshoe option on top ? Do sony make decent after market flash to fit their Propriety connection ? I think the F3 also has a hotshoe connection ? I know their later models can fit the same view finders etc as the Pen series.

Zig - Have you used these lenses you mention with the Pen series ? The only reviews i ever see are the 20mm 1/7f Panny.
YES, I own a Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.4, Konica 50mm f1.7AR, Olympus OM 50mm f1.8, and Canon 50mm f1.8 lens that I use by way of adapters on my E-P2 digital camera. Mind you, they all have to be focused manually and the aperture ring on the lens needs to be manually adjusted for the application. It isn't a simple matter of point and shoot. That is why I directed my response to PBoerger as he already has an E-PM1 and I do believe is familiar with what I'm saying.

Your situation is different , in that, you are looking to buy a new camera. Bearing this in mind, I do believe you would be better off getting a camera that
has better low light performance i.e. the Sony.

If you can afford to invest a little more, than I would recommend an Olympus E-PL5. It has a newer Sony 16mp sensor, better focus system and more features than the budget minded E-PM1.

BUT with that amount of money to spend, it becomes more complex because
now your in DSLR territory and the D5100 is a pretty fine camera, with a lot of really good lens choices that will auto focus and meter for you.

Not trying to confuse you but you have a lot of choices. I think it's more a matter of: what your budget really is, how much time and effort you want to invest getting really good photographs as well as the size of the camera.

Hope that helps.

Zig
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 7:44 AM   #28
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Thanks so much Shoturtle and zig, your comments and guidance has been amazing and priceless. I took the dive and i got a new Sony NEX F3 with a single lens etc. I have taken so many shots with it already its amazing. I cant believe the quality of the photos, for indoor and outside. Outside in the evening, no flash pulled in so much light and detail, it looked lighter in the picture than it did in real life. Indoor, the no flash shots were so good, and the shots with the pop up flash were amazing, to back up what Shoturtle explained with the tree. HVL-F20S flash is something i will look to in the future, as well as other lenses once i start getting used to it more. The pop up flash, even though not as strong as some, fills out the subject so much better, so there are not such obvious shadows etc. as i was experiencing with the P&S.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 7:45 AM   #29
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Here is a quick sample why for indoor, a flash is the better option. first taken with the available light, the second with a metz 44 AF-1 where I adjusted the power and bounce it to avoid flash wash. The second shot is allot clearer. Taken with my epl1.

The flash also does a better job if you know how to deploy it. That is why I said get a camera with a hotshoe.
So much more detail and colour with that flash shot. It makes sense, you in a darker environment, and naturally its not that bright and clear to see, so why not improve the visibilty of the area with the flash. I think my previous camera was frustrating me in night shots with shadow, slow shutter speed etc. With the Nex people blink from the red light or flash but you still get a great shot before they can move their eyes.

Last edited by vxcalais; Jan 6, 2013 at 7:48 AM.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 8:34 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by vxcalais View Post
Thanks so much Shoturtle and zig, your comments and guidance has been amazing and priceless. I took the dive and i got a new Sony NEX F3 with a single lens etc. I have taken so many shots with it already its amazing. I cant believe the quality of the photos, for indoor and outside. Outside in the evening, no flash pulled in so much light and detail, it looked lighter in the picture than it did in real life. Indoor, the no flash shots were so good, and the shots with the pop up flash were amazing, to back up what Shoturtle explained with the tree. HVL-F20S flash is something i will look to in the future, as well as other lenses once i start getting used to it more. The pop up flash, even though not as strong as some, fills out the subject so much better, so there are not such obvious shadows etc. as i was experiencing with the P&S.
Wow, that was quick.

Congrats on getting a fine photographic tool.
It should provide you years of enjoyment.

Zig
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