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Old Mar 12, 2013, 10:00 AM   #21
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No opinions on which to buy, these days all are good!
To me the sample images you view on the web are suspect as the images you view on screen are not raw's but jpg conversions. A lot can change in an image during the conversion process, especially if exactly the same settings are used on raw files from different camera sensor/processors/lens combinations.

About Ashi Pentax history.
Ashi Optical registered the Pentax name in 1957.
In 2005, Pentax Corporation partnered with Samsung Techwin producing the Pentax k10d, k20d, Samsung gx-10, gx-20
In 2007 Ashi Pentax merged with Hoya to form Hoya Pentax HD Corporation,
in 2011 Hoya sold off Pentax to Ricoh to form subsidiary Pentax Ricoh Imaging Company, Ltd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentax

The Pentax company is bouncing around at bit, but hopefully the company continues, they have made very good cameras for a very long time.
Both images posted are from the RAW file. Obviously there's probably a conversion done when they are posted online, but I would expect that the same process happens to both images when posted online and therefore, the conversion process can be factored out. They also have both files for download I believe. I haven't downloaded them and looked at the RAW files on my own computer though. I might have to do that.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 10:01 AM   #22
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It's still a $500 lens versus a $150 lens. Of course I'd expect the Tamron to look better especially with the f2.8 throughout it's range. People big-time into photography, like other hobbies, tend to think money is no object sometimes.

If I had a DSLR already and a few years of shooting, I may look into that as an upgrade to my lens, but I'm just getting my wife to come around to the idea of spending $700-$800 on a camera and a few basic lenses. Try adding $400 more to that. That's like getting the okay to buy a brand new Honda Civic and then saying, "But the Civic is unremarkable, this $100k Ferrari is much nicer" and trying to justify that instead. I think that's obvious that it's better, but the Civic is also remarkably better than a 98 Chevy and is also 1/4 the price of the Ferrari.

At this point in my shooting, I need value and then as I shoot more and show that it's something I'm into and consistent with (not just something that collects dust), then I can justify more expensive lenses in the future. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to invest in a good body now so that when I do spend more on lenses in the future, it is worth while. That's why saying stuff like (and I'm paraphrasing) "the D5200 is wasted on the kit lens, don't bother" isn't a very valuable, helpful opinion. I realize that kit lenses aren't amazing, but not everyone can drop $2000 on a camera and great lenses right off the bat. A little more help and understand of the situation and a little less elitism would be helpful.


I wish I could find a Pentax in any store to even take test shots with! lol. I'd also like to hear the mirror slap in person compared to the 5200 and the T4i. One main goal of the camera will be to take baby photos and I don't want to wake up an infant with mirror slap! haha. I hear the mirror is loud on the Pentax.

Also, this is another comment that the D5200 bests the K-30 but no explanation for the sample photo that I posted on the first page. Looking at that crop, it certainly doesn't seem like the D5200 looks better. It may have finer detail in general, but the coloring with the color noise looks bad.

If you are worried about mirror slap noise. Honestly they are all about the same loudness. If you are really concern about that aspect. I would look at a mirrorless system. Something like the sony nex or the olympus epl5 or OMD. They really are much quitter.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 10:09 AM   #23
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If you are worried about mirror slap noise. Honestly they are all about the same loudness. If you are really concern about that aspect. I would look at a mirrorless system. Something like the sony nex or the olympus epl5 or OMD. They really are much quitter.
Well I know some are worse than others. The K-5 is extremely quiet so it makes everything seem louder by comparison. Most pros shoot with a traditional SLR with a mirror and do baby shoots all the time and it's not an issue so I don't think it's going to be a big deal. I've just heard that the K-30 was loud so I wanted to make sure it wasn't crazy loud compared to the average. If it's just like the equivalent Nikons or Canons then it's probably a non-issue. Mirrorless is nice but they seem less comfortable (in hand), just as expensive with less features (viewfinder for instance) and still not pocketable due to the lenses. Sure it takes up much less space, but it's not going to be like a P&S.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 11:37 AM   #24
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The difference honestly is not that much. My brother shoots pentax k-x and k30, not a big deal of difference form my 60D and T1i. And my friend shoots nikon d7100 and d90, the difference is really not that much when you put it against a sound meter which I have done. 2db of is not going to make something really quite. It is only slightly less loud.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 1:25 PM   #25
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You didn't mention what you wanted to shoot until your fourth post after having been asked.

You didn't mention your budget until I suggested a high quality, reasonably priced lens that would improve image quality by leaps and bounds over any difference one camera might give you over another.

If you're looking for confirmation that the K-30 produces better images than the D5200, you should have picked up by now that you're not going to find it here.

How can we help you?
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 1:44 PM   #26
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You didn't mention what you wanted to shoot until your fourth post after having been asked.

You didn't mention your budget until I suggested a high quality, reasonably priced lens that would improve image quality by leaps and bounds over any difference one camera might give you over another.

If you're looking for confirmation that the K-30 produces better images than the D5200, you should have picked up by now that you're not going to find it here.

How can we help you?
You're right, the information that I could/should have included wasn't all within the first post. My apologies. But might I add that the tone of your posts, for lack of a better word, sucks. I realize that is to be expected at times on a forum, but honestly, until now I haven't experiences it over at the Panny P&S forums.

I'm not saying that the K-30 produces better images, and I'm not asking for some one to flat out say that either...but I don't think it's too much to ask for some semblance of an answer as to why the sensor data and specs say that the D5200 should be at least at the same noise level as the K-30's sensor all while having better resolution...but I did not find that to be the case in a standardized review test. I was at least hoping some one might provide insight as to why that would happen. Otherwise, what good are standardized testing procedures if you can't look at them and say "A looks better than B"? If your only insight is "the data says it's better, so it's better" then you can kindly refrain from commenting because I'm an engineer, I know what the data says. I also know that data doesn't always tell the full story, especially when what I see with my eyes doesn't match that.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 2:23 PM   #27
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Sumx4182 - I might suggest that your own posts contribute to frustration from people here. You've basically argued with just about everyone who has posted to some extent. Stop arguing. Everyone here has agreed that the K30 is capable of meeting your needs. Debating whether or not it is better or worse than the D5200 is pointless. You have now stated you want to buy a kit lens only and don't want to spend money out-of-the-gate on an a better quality lens. OK. This ongoing bickering isn't going to help. You've been given a brief history of how long Pentax has been producing cameras. You are still exactly where you were when you first came here - You like the K30 but are concerned about Pentax as a company. You've got all the info members can give regarding Pentax as a company. Either decide you can accept Pentax as a company and buy the K30 kit or drop Pentax and buy D5200 or T4i kit - both of which are also capable of meeting your stated requirements.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 1:07 AM   #28
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I'm not so sure. Looking at the sample scene photos at dpreview (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-d5200/15) I think the Pentax looks better. There's alot of color noise, even at the lowest iso. Almost like a very mild false color moire throughout the grey tones. I'm not sure where that comes from but it makes the images look much worse when pixel peeking than the K-30. Also, the K-30 has sensor shift so stabilized lenses are less necessary, built-in focus motor (again makes for less expensive lenses), full range viewfinder, pentaprism, faster shutter, and cheaper because it's not brand new. I think overall, the K-30 seems like a better camera.
Sensor shift is better than nothing, and it's handy when using manual lenses, if for some reason you find yourself wanting to play around with one. But, it's less useful when you need tack sharp results using a long telephoto lens on a less than sunny day, or if you want to take hand held shots indoors, or in twilight. Two stops meets the very minimum requirements and doesn't do a great job. The 4 stops a lens provides is more ideal.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 7:05 AM   #29
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True, the best estimates for Pentax' sensor shift image stabilization are about 2 stops benefit. But the 4 stops you mention is only for some of the best performing optical stabilization systems. Most are only 2 to 3, and some aren't as good as Pentax' 2 stops. And sensor shift image stabilization works for any lens, especially Pentax' implimentation, where you can specify the focal length of the MF lens you're using. (If you use a MF lens on a Sony, it just presumes the lens has a focal length of 50mm.)
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 5:55 PM   #30
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True, the best estimates for Pentax' sensor shift image stabilization are about 2 stops benefit. But the 4 stops you mention is only for some of the best performing optical stabilization systems. Most are only 2 to 3, and some aren't as good as Pentax' 2 stops. And sensor shift image stabilization works for any lens, especially Pentax' implimentation, where you can specify the focal length of the MF lens you're using. (If you use a MF lens on a Sony, it just presumes the lens has a focal length of 50mm.)
I believe basic Nikon lenses are 3 stops, but Canon uses 4 in all their lenses, from what I can tell. I believe if you buy Sigma or Tamron they're mostly, or all 4 stops. Can you use the IS on third party lenses on pentax cameras instead of sensor shift?
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