Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > What Camera Should I Buy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Aug 4, 2004, 7:02 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Hi

I don`t know which cam I should get?
On the one hand with the D70 i could use my lenses I have from my F90X, on the other hand I don`t want to carry around that much stuff, so I could get a prosumer 8mp, such as the Olympus C8080, which should be the best in the class?!
Or I could get myself a small pocket sized cam, like the Ixus 500 or the Nikon 5200, for spontaniouse pics AND one of the above? Or a 4mp would do it? Any suggestions?

Sorry if I wrote something wrong, german :?

THanks for any help!


JosstheBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Aug 4, 2004, 7:50 AM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 29
Default

I was going to ask a similar question as i am in the same situation -I also have a Nikon F90x and am also torn between the D70 or an 8mp prosumer model.

My choice of 8mp camera would be the Minolta A2 because it has a manual zoom ring and a greater zoom range. I therefore think that it would replicate my current set up more closely as long as it reacts fast enough and gives me enough creative control. The Olympus seems to have a better lens but the mechanics of the Minolta seem to be better designed in my view.

My reservation about the D70 is the same as yours - thesize and the fact that i might have left it at home when i see that perfect shot. With my F90x i just have one lens (28-200) but would need two lenses with the D70 in order to get the same coverage.

However, if i do not like the electronic viewfinder or if i think that the Minolta has any shutter lag that makes action shots difficult, i will go with the D70.

I am sure that others will advise both of us but i think that these are all good cameras and in the end it comes down to personal choice, how you want to use the camera and what works for you.

Any helpful advice for 2 guys in a dilemma?
Timeless-161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 4, 2004, 8:21 AM   #3
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Timeless-161 wrote:
Quote:
My reservation about the D70 is the same as yours - thesize and the fact that i might have left it at home when i see that perfect shot. With my F90x i just have one lens (28-200) but would need two lenses with the D70 in order to get the same coverage.
We are starting to see some lenses designed specifically for Digital Cameras with a crop factor. One example is the lensthat can be purchased with the D70 as a kit (18-70mm AF-S DX f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED). It has a 35mm Equivalent Focal Range of ~ 27-127.5mm on the D70.

Another example is Sigma's new 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC (for Digital Camera) lens. This lens is available in a Sigma mount, Nikon mount, and Canon mount. It's under $300.00 discounted:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...&image.y=8

On the Nikon D70 (with it's 1.5x crop factor), you'd have a 35mm Equivalent Focal Range of approximately 27-187.5mm. On the Digital Rebel (with it's 1.6x crop factor), the focal range would be equivalent to ~ 28-200mm.

Because these lenses are designed specifically for Digital SLR models, their size and weight is smaller too -- in order to get the same 35mm Equivalent Focal Range you'd need a larger lens for with a 35mm camera (or on a "full frame" DSLR).

The down side (if you own both a 35mm and DSLR model), is that they will only work on the DSLR models with APS size sensors (because they are designed with the "crop factors" in mind).

I suspect we'll see more of these types of lenses in the future, as DSLR's become more and more popular.
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 4, 2004, 8:49 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Monza76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,093
Default

My lack of experience may be compensated for by my tendency to over research.

If you have an extensive lens set, the D70 will offer you the same flexibility as your current film SLR, as well as the same weight penalty. Here are my findings:

- Of the 8MP models only the Sony 828 and the Konica/Minolta A2 offer handling similar to an SLR due to the manual zoom and focusrings.

- All of them seem well built but I have heard more positive reviews on the Sony and the Olympus.

- The Olympus has the most confusing array of buttons, especially for someone moving from film SLRs (small digicam users may not find it so)

- The Nikon has the slowest lens however, in some reviews at least, it may have slightly better sharpness in the images.

- The A2 has the best EVF so far (by far) with the Nikon probably bringing up the rear (the 5700 was awful in low light, almost as bad as my wife's Fuji 2800)

- The Sony's low light performance is unreal.

- All of these cameras are afflicted with far more noise (at higher ISO) than any DSLR however the fast lenses used on most of these cameras (Nikon 8700 excluded) allow you to use lower ISO settings and still get the shot.

- The smaller sensors of these cameras means that the cameras have incredible depth of field so blurring backgrounds may have to be done in software rather than in camera.

- Sensor cleaning is not an issue on cameras which do not have interchangeable lenses.

Not much help maybe but at least there are some points to consider. Personally I am leaning toward an EVF camera because of the cost, and the fact that the only SLR lenses I own are old manual focus Pentax and Minolta Maxxum, the Pentax *istD has limited capabilities with these lenses, and the Konica/Minolta DSLR looks like it will be a high end model well out of my price range.

Ira
Monza76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 4, 2004, 9:14 AM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8
Default

I`m not that typ of pro user. The F90X is my fathers and he doesen`t use the features, so I was thinking about the D70 just because I didn´t want to sell all the lenses (by the way it is a 28-70 2,8 (i think) and a 70-200 2,8 lens, those are still around 1200€.
I just want good pictures, and will use all the functions in the future, maybe?
The problem with both D70 and any 8mp cam in my opinion is, that you can`t just take spontanious pics like you could with a small pocket sized cam, which on the other side doesn`t take that quality of pics like a dSLR or an 8mp!

So get 2 cams? or get the "middle" 8mp?

Regards

Tobias
JosstheBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 4, 2004, 12:19 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 29
Default

JimC wrote:
Quote:
We are starting to see some lenses designed specifically for Digital Cameras with a crop factor. One example is the lensthat can be purchased with the D70 as a kit (18-70mm AF-S DX f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED). It has a 35mm Equivalent Focal Range of ~ 27-127.5mm on the D70.

Another example is Sigma's new 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC (for Digital Camera) lens. This lens is available in a Sigma mount, Nikon mount, and Canon mount. It's under $300.00 discounted:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...&image.y=8
Yes, the 18-70 could be combined with my current 28-200 to give me 27-128 and 42-300, but i would need to carry them both to get the focal range that i have at the moment.

Therefore, i am very interested in that Sigma lens that you mention as it would enable my current lens to be left at home unless i am doing sports photography etc. I had not realised that there was an equivalent (almost) of my current lens on the market so thank you for bringing that to my attention. I'll try to find it here in the UK. The $ price looks good but i suspect that the UK price will have the same numbers but just in Sterling currency!

Any idea of the quality of this lens?
Timeless-161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 4, 2004, 12:30 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 29
Default

JosstheBoss wrote:
Quote:
The problem with both D70 and any 8mp cam in my opinion is, that you can`t just take spontanious pics like you could with a small pocket sized cam, which on the other side doesn`t take that quality of pics like a dSLR or an 8mp!
Tobias, if you are not after the full features of prosumer cameras, have you thought about some of the excellent 5mp cameras? With the good ones, the overall picture quality is not necessarily much less than the 8mp models (no doubt someone will challenge that statement), there is more choice and some of them are more compact than the 8mp models. They are also cheaper.

I have always found my F90x to be fine for spontaneous shots as long as it is in my hand. Sometimes i leave it behind because i don't want to walk around with a big camera. The D70 would be the same. The A2 would be easier to carry and but may be slower to use quickly than a proper SLR (i still need to play with one in a shop to experiment).
Timeless-161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 4, 2004, 1:20 PM   #8
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Timeless-161 wrote:
Quote:
Therefore, i am very interested in that Sigma lens that you mention as it would enable my current lens to be left at home unless i am doing sports photography etc. I had not realised that there was an equivalent (almost) of my current lens on the market so thank you for bringing that to my attention.
Quote:
Any idea of the quality of this lens?
Users I've seen posting about it on other forums seem to be pleased with it. However, you'll need to judge for yourself. It'snot as bright a lens as some (but, considering that a DSLR will shoot at higher ISO speeds, with lower noise compared to the non-DSLR models you're looking at), then this may not be as big of a factor as most imagine.

Keep in mind that the sensors in DSLR are dramatically larger than the sensors you find in the "prosumer" cameras. As a result, the photosites for each pixel are much larger,and able to gather more light. So, less amplifcation of their signal is needed for equivalent ISO sensitivity. As a result, images are much cleaner at any given ISO speed. Dynamic range is improved, too. That's why most of the DSLR models can shoot at up to ISO 1600 in a pinch (some even go to 3200 or higher). Whereas, most non-DSLR models will begin to show noise (similiar to film grain) at anything much above the lowest ISO speeds.

Of course, you can't expect to get clean images shooting at ISO 1600. But, they'll probably becleaner than images shot at ISO 400 from most of the newer non-DSLR models. There are also some pretty good noise reduction tools out now, that can reduce noise in an image, without destroying too much detail. Here are some popular ones:

Neat Image: http://www.neatimage.com

Noise Ninja: http://www.picturecode.com


JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 4, 2004, 2:16 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 29
Default

JimC, thanks for that good advice. I think that i am leaning back towards the D70 (it changes every day or so!) for many of the reasons that you mention. The anti-shake feature of the A2 should beequaled by the fact that the D70 can be used at higher ISOs with less noise, as i believe that the anti-shake adds about an extra 2 stops.

The inability to use depth of field creatively with a prosumer camera is also a worry as i tend to do that a lot with my F90X (reducing depth of field realistically on the PC soundslike atime consuming process). I do understand that I will not be able to get as narrow a depth of field with the D70as you can witha 35mm SLR using the same settings, but am i right in thinking that this issue is less pronounced on the D70 (or any dSLR) than on the prosumer cameras due to basic lens physics?

Tobias - apologies for hijacking your thread!! We started off with the same question but now seem to have diverged a bit!
Timeless-161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 4, 2004, 3:10 PM   #10
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Timeless-161 wrote:
Quote:
The inability to use depth of field creatively with a prosumer camera is also a worry as i tend to do that a lot with my F90X (reducing depth of field realistically on the PC soundslike atime consuming process). I do understand that I will not be able to get as narrow a depth of field with the D70as you can witha 35mm SLR using the same settings, but am i right in thinking that this issue is less pronounced on the D70 (or any dSLR) than on the prosumer cameras due to basic lens physics?
Depth of field is based on the actual focal length of the lens (not the 35mm equivalent focal length).

So, yes, for a given 35mm equivalent focal length, aperture and focus distance, you'll havemore Depth of Field with a DSLR (using a crop factor), versus your 35mm Camera. This is because the actual focal length of the lens will be shorter for the same 35m equivalent focal length.

This problem is far more pronounced in a prosumer model, compared to a DSLR. Take a camera like the DiMAGE A2 as an example. The actual focal length of it's lens is only 7.2-50.8mm (to give you a 35mm equivalent focal length of 28-200mm).

As a result, it will be much more difficult to make your subject stand out from backgrounds.

Of course, this can also be viewed as a plus for a non-DSLR model. If you're trying to shoot scenes where you want more Depth of Field, especially at closer subject distances, a DSLR would be hard pressed to match it -- even stopping down the aperture to any reasonable value.

There are pros and cons to either approach. Some users have both types of cameras -- a prosumer model with great focal range in a lighter, more compact package, as well as a DSLR for conditions more appropriatefor one (for example, when higher ISO speeds, or a shallower Depth of Field are needed).

Here is a handy Depth of Field Calculator you may want to see for computing Depth of Field with popular camera models. Just use the actual focal length of the lens for your computations (keeping in mind how the actual focal length on a model, compares to the 35mm equivalent focal length you'll have with it's lens).

http://dfleming.ameranet.com/dofjs.html

JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:34 AM.