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Old Aug 12, 2004, 8:12 AM   #1
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I made a short test Sony F717 vs Panasonic FZ10,and was very surprised from results….

Both cameras was in aperture priority mode.

Sony F717 A- 5.0 / S- 1/640 100ISO

Panasonic FZ10 A- 4.6/ S-1/640 50ISO

My conclusion is :
  1. Panasonic 50ISO = Sony 100ISO [/*]
  2. Noise is similar,even Sony is producing more chromatc noise in the sky. [/*]
  3. Resolution – similar,even in some shots Sony picture is softer. [/*]
  4. AF/MF – Panasonic is much more better with it's one tuch AF/MF mode. [/*]
  5. Chromatic Aberations – Sony is looser !This is visible in shot with full tele – 190mm( Panasonic have 420mm,but I made test only up to 190mm,becouse 190mm is Sony limitation.
May be somebody will say,yes,but Panasonic have OIS and maximum tele is 420mm,it's not fair…

OK,but here in Bulgaria Panasonic is 500EUR street price and Sony is 650EUR ….

Let's Sony reduce the price if picture quality is worst…

Below is the test pictures. Left column is Panasonic,right is Sony

If somebody want I can send files with full exif by e-mail.
[/*]
  1. Max wide :
  1. http://photo-forum.net/boni/testP_S.jpg

    [/*]
  2. Tele 190mm (for Sony this is max):[/*]

http://photo-forum.net/boni/t2p_s.jpg


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Old Aug 12, 2004, 9:41 AM   #2
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Well, I'm very skeptical about your test methodology.

For one thing, the Sony is not exposing the imagesthe samein your test photos -- given the ISO speeds and apertures used. This could just be metering differences for this scene.Were they taken at the same time?

For another thing, you're comparing ISO 50 with the Panasonic to ISO 100 with the Sony. If you need to shoot at higher ISO speeds to increase shutter speeds in low light, not only is the Sony's lensbrighter, but it will likely have far lower noise as ISO speeds are increased, too.

I'm also skeptical about the focal lengths you used for your test. How did you set the Focal Length for the Panasonic to match the focal length for the Sony? For it to be the same 190mm equivalent focal length, the EXIF in the Sony image should indicate approximately 48.5mm; and the EXIF in the Panasonic should indicate approximately 32.6mm. This is because the focal length multiplier onthe Sony is approximately 3.9x; and the focal length multiplier on the Panasonic (with it's smaller CCD) is approximately 5.83x.

Finally, a lens tends to have a little more distortion at it's full wide angle and full zoom settings. So, the Sony would have not been at it's best at maximum zoom.

Look, if you need a camera capable of taking photos at longer focal lengths, then the Panasonic, with it's stabilized lens is a great choice. However, for other conditions (for example, where you need the fastest shutter speeds to prevent blur from subject movement in low light), the Sony would make a much better choice.Try bumping up the ISO Speeds on both models and see what happens to noise levels.

Also, the Sony's lens is twice as bright as the Panasonics on the wide end of it's focal range -- allowing shutter speeds twice as fast for the same lighting conditions. A Stablized lens is nice for reducing camera shake, but it can't reduce blur from subject movement.


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Old Aug 12, 2004, 10:41 AM   #3
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I understand All this ,but if shutter speed and aperture value are similar this mean that Panasonic ISO50 = Sony ISO100

About the focal lenghts - I can send you full files and you can check this )

FZ10 is my 6-th digicam. I have also Nikon D70,before that I had Canon Pro90is,Sony F707,Canon G3,Nikon D100,Olympus 8080...

I only show you that In good light condition FZ10 is producing better picture than F717 - fact. Chromatic noise is lower,and picture is much more colour balanced for me.

Here is some of my pictures :

http://photo-forum.net/index.php?APP...amp;USER_ID=15


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Old Aug 12, 2004, 10:51 AM   #4
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Frankly speaking I noticed that Panasonic is producing better image with far low noise in the sky and lower CA in Steves reviews :

Sony :

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_...s/dsc00071.jpg

Panasonic FZ10 :

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_...s/P1010418.JPG

It will be very nice if Steve share his opinion for comparison FZ10 vs 717

He have much more experiance )
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 1:11 PM   #5
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Well, I don't own either camera, so I have no "bones to pick" with either one.

However, it appears to me that your test methodology is flawed. I see a difference in exposure between your two samples (which could just be the metering differences for this one shot). Were they even taken at the same time?

I am also skeptical about any difference in resolved detail between the models (since you indicate you were taking the photos at 190mm for the Sony, which would be at it's worse, since distortion will be worse at either it's minimum or maximum focal length). In contrast, this would be mid-range of the Panasonic's lens (so itshould be at it's sharpest there). So, even this part of the test is biased towards the Panasonic.

As far as Steve's samples, there is a huge difference in lighting between the samples in the two cameras. The Panasonic's were on a very nice Sunny Day. The Sony's were taken on a partly cloudy day. Light is a Digital Camera's best friend.
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 3:49 PM   #6
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My pictures was taken today with 10 min difference.
In wide zoom shot - I see that Sony is underexposed may be with 1/2 stop ,but this is Sony problem.
In tele 190mm shot I think that no difference in exposition.
If you find a difference in position of some of the trucks in second picture - have in mind taht this is TIR parking and trucks are mooving every minute.
Yes 190mm is Sony limitation,but this is only Sony problem that their max zoom is 190mm(eqyv) vs Panasonic 420mm and in same time 717 is 150EUR expencive than FZ10 .
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 3:53 PM   #7
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I will try tomorrow in low light conditions )
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 4:21 PM   #8
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Well, it depends on what you want a camera for. I take most of my photos at closer to wide angle. So, the Panasonic's zoom wouldn't be a big plus for me. For those that like Wildlife photos, etc., then it may be a much better choice.

The biggest advantage from my perspective that the Sony has is in low light -- thanks to it's very bright f/2.0-2.4 lens, and ability to shoot at higher ISO speeds with lower noise compared to the other models using this CCD.

So, if you increased the ISO speeds on the Panasonic, I think you'll find that noise will be much worse from it in lower light (especially given the smaller sensor in the Panasonic).

Of course, the Panasonic has the advantage of a stabilized lens, but that won't help with motion blur from subject movement. You need faster shutter speeds for that.

Since the Sony has a lens that is twice as bright at wide angle + a CCD with larger photosites for each pixel, I would think that it would be the clear winner for photographing moving subjectsin lower light conditions -- especially towards the wide angle setting for it's lens and when higher ISO speeds are needed.

I think you're about right about the Sony shot being around 1/2 stop underexposed. It could have been the metering it selected for this particular shot. But, it may have different behavior in other lighting conditions. It'smeteringmay have put more weight on the brightness of the sky compared to the Panasonic's meteringfor this shot.

There could also have been a change in lighting between the photos from both cameras that would have impacted exposure.

I'd doubt that the Panasonic's ISO 50 is equal to the Sony's ISO 100 (but stranger things have happened).To accurately test noise levels, etc., the conditions must be controlled; since a small change in lighting can have an impact on it.

If you have both cameras, it would be easy to test to see if the Sony's ISO speed is not as it should be. Simply set both to the same ISO settings, shutter speed and aperture; with the same subjects in identical lighting. If the exposure looks the same, then they are roughly equivalent. If the Sony's shot looks a stop underexposed compared to the Panasonic's, then you'd be right about the Sony's ISO speed.

You could also get a good idea by using spot metering in controlled conditions to see the autoexposure settings selected by each camera.


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Old Aug 12, 2004, 5:03 PM   #9
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So,about the ISO...
I mentioned that Panasonic picture is taken with 50ISO
Aperture 4.6 /shuter speed 1/640
Sony - 100ISO - Aperture 5.0 ,shuter speed 1/640
This is very close and Sony wide shot is slight underexposed... This means that Sony 100ISO = Pana 50ISO )

About the shots is low light.I have some experience with both cameras and I can told you that they are equal unsuitable for low light shots. Much more better is Canon G3 for example. Its 50ISO is faster than Sony 100ISO .
And perfect choise for such money (EUR 700)is Canon 300D (digital Rebel)or Canon EOS 30D (second hand 350EUR)
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 6:21 PM   #10
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boni wrote:
Quote:
So,about the ISO...
I mentioned that Panasonic picture is taken with 50ISO
Aperture 4.6 /shuter speed 1/640
Sony - 100ISO - Aperture 5.0 ,shuter speed 1/640
This is very close and Sony wide shot is slight underexposed... This means that Sony 100ISO = Pana 50ISO )
Look, I don't own either camera, and I don't plan on buying either camera. But, I am curious as to how they compare. Unless you test them in controlled conditions, you don't know if the Sony ISO 100 = Panasonic ISO 50.

You indicated that the photos were taken about 10 minutes apart. Lighting can change in a matter of seconds.

There could also be other explanations for what you are seeing. For example, the Pansonic's lens may be slightly brighter than the aperture selected indicates at mid-zoom; and/or the Sony's lens may not beas bright as the aperture selected indicates at full zoom. Sometimes the Aperture ratings are not perfect.

Now, you could be absolutely correct. I'm just saying that we don't know unless you test them in controlled conditions.




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