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Old Oct 11, 2004, 11:39 AM   #1
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My Canon Rebel EOS consistently turns out grainy night shots (the non-digital version) and when the photos are downloaded at the highest quality at WalMart online, I still get a somewhat grainy shot.

I want to trade this in for a digital camera but I've heard that the digital Canon 300D has similar night shot issues. Taking pictures is slowly becoming more than a hobby for me. I want to do photography of all sorts (action, closeups - I have the telephoto lens, portraits, and silhouettes) so I need a versatile camera that is not as expensive as a pro's camera, but I want crisp, clean shots.

Advice??
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Old Oct 11, 2004, 12:06 PM   #2
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The higher the ISO (a.k.a., ASA) film speed you use, the more visible grain you'll have (the size of the grain pattern increases with ISO speed). So, if you use lower speed film, you'll get less grain.

Scanning film also makes the grain more apparent.

The same issue exists with Digital Cameras, only the grain is caused by sensor noise (versus film emulsions).

A Camera like the Digital Rebel has relatively low noise compared tonon-DSLR models. I think you'd also find it better than film at equivalent ISO speeds for visible grain.

The best way to reduce grain with either film or digital, is to use a faster (brighter) lens if you need faster shutter speeds, so you can keep the ISO speed lower.

Of course, a Digital Camera has the advantage of letting you change ISO speeds "on the fly" via a setting.With a film camera, to change ISO Speed, you must change film.

I think you'd find that visible grain is probably less with the Digital Rebel at equivalent ISO speeds than you have with film, too.

BTW, you can reduce the appearance of grain (either from film emulsions, or from sensor noise in a digital camera) in your photos using software. Here are some good packages:

http://www.neatimage.com

http://www.picturecode.com

http://www.imagenomic.com

If you go with a Digital Rebel, be advised that you'll have different 35mm equivalent focal lengths with your lenses. Because the sensor on the Digital Rebel is smaller than 35m film, it only uses the center portion of the image circle projected by the lens.

So, you must multiply the actual focal length of the lens you use by 1.6x to get the 35mm equivalent focal length. This is usually referred to as a "crop factor" (a.k.a., focal length multiplier). For example: a 50mm lens on the Digital Rebel would give you a 35mm equivalent focal length of 80mm (50 x 1.6 = 80).
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Old Oct 13, 2004, 1:16 PM   #3
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If you can afford the cost, look at the new Canon 20D - it has algorithmic noise reduction built into it for low light situations - tests have shown that it shoots at ISO 400 what a 10D shoots at ISO 100.

You can further reduce the noise from your digital cameras with a software such as NoiseNinja, a pretty remarkable pice of software - written by Jim Christen at Picturecode.

MJ
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Old Oct 13, 2004, 3:02 PM   #4
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Wisconsin Girl,

You may also want to consider a Nikon 8800.

They are brand new.

You can read more about them here.

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=21

Nice thing about the Nikon is that you can use your CF cards in it

No need to buy a new kind of memory .
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Old Oct 13, 2004, 3:13 PM   #5
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digcamfan wrote:
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Wisconsin Girl,

You may also want to consider a Nikon 8800.

They are brand new.

You can read more about them here.

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=21

Nice thing about the Nikon is that you can use your CF cards in it

No need to buy a new kind of memory .
Yes but the Nikon is not compatible with her existing lenses.
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Old Oct 13, 2004, 4:46 PM   #6
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Ebay for the lenses?


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Old Oct 13, 2004, 5:07 PM   #7
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More cost, a 300D without the kit lens retails for $900 and can be found cheaper on the web. If she needs to add lenes to that it will drive up the cost.

:blah:
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Old Oct 13, 2004, 5:08 PM   #8
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Steve released his final review of the 20D. He has some excellent sample shots of 3200, 1600, 800 and 400 iso settings. These samples should provide you a good example of the noise performance of the 20D.
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Old Oct 15, 2004, 11:00 PM   #9
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Thank you, all of you. I think you probably all agree to disagree when it comes to camera choices. This is a great discussion.

I can't afford the more expensive one. Digital rebels also have a $100 rebate as of today, so I'm leaning that way at the moment.


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