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Old Dec 11, 2004, 7:02 PM   #1
kex
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Hi.

I think the time has come to upgrade to a dSLR.
ATM I got a Canon A60 and I am very limited considering zoom, actionshots and print size.

I'm considering to get a dSLR for a while now and I'm almost ready for one.
But I guess I need a recommendation.

What I need
I'd love to be able to take action shots, but also macro, landscape, portraits and things which are far away.
So I'm generally looking for a good overall dSLR which will also give me the ability of taking action shots or shots in low-light condition.
I know that these also depend on the lense.

My candidates are the Canon 20D, Nikon D70 or even the Canon 300D?

I really don't know.
I think that on the one hand the D70 and 300D are maybe out-of-date, they can also take less pics/sec than the 20D and the resolution is also under the 20D.
Plus, I've heard bad things about the noise with the Nikon and I am sceptic about the manual controls of the DRebel.

Based on these factsthe 20D would be my first choice.
But it ismore expensive than the other2 cams. For the extra money I'd spend on the 20D, I could get some extra equipement for a DRebel or D70 like CF Card/Microdrive, battery and stuff.

I'm planing to get adSLR with the kit lense anyway andgetting a Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 in spring.
But I'd love to start learning the cam and using it before.
I'm planing tohave the 1400 (euro)bucks in january, so I could get a 20D, but without any extras, except the kit lense.

Another idea also cameto my mind. What about getting a 10D?They'requite cheap at ebay for example, and the 10D is still a good cam.
But on the other side,would it be right to get an old body when everyone else is upgrading to the 20D?

So to put it in one sentence, my main problem is if I should either get a not so good dSLR with some more equipement or the top dSLR which is on the market at the moment?

I hope you understand my problem and can give me helpful advice.
Thanks in advance for your answers.
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Old Dec 12, 2004, 2:00 AM   #2
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First question is: what type of action shots are you looking at? baseball, hockey(the greatest sport ever), cars, etc. and how interested are you in taking shots in repid sucession?
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Old Dec 12, 2004, 2:28 AM   #3
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hey kex! this is great to hear! you're a very good photographer and should really upgrade so you can continue to learn!

alright, i just bought the 300D...and, i have no clue what those people were talking about...lol, i guess the top of the line cameras must just be amazing or something, cuz this is a beautiful piece of camera equipment!

of course, this is my first SLR, so all the awesome sounds and controls are new to me (mirror slap, REAL shutter sound, bulb, although i haven't played with bulb yet, and high ISO ability)

well, i asked a very similar question earlier in the year..

i was stuck between the prospect of buying a 1500 dollar camera and still having to spend around 1000 more for the lenses i wanted and then batteries media cards...lol, so, someone (ah, wish i could give them the credit they deserve) brought up a very VERY good point...

when you think about it, in the long run...you'll have the lenses, not the body...unless you drop them, or it has some kind of rare fault, your lenses will last many years, but your camera body, will by outdated a couple months after you buy it...

but...outdated doesn't mean bad...in a couple months, they'll come out with the 30D, and no one will care about the 20D...but, the 20D will still be a very good camera...

anyway, my point is...you're better off buying good lenses with the Rebel (haha, i'm a canon guy ) and then just upgrading the body in a couple years, that buying the 20D with cheap lenses that you'll have to replace later...

of course, you'll want to be smart, and get a good tripod too...i'm finding the downsides to the one i have now...

oh yeah...if you are willing to pay the extra money for the 20D, but still get the same lenses as you would with the Rebel, i don't see anything wrong with that

well, i can't wait till you get this camera, and post some of your shots!

Vito
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Old Dec 12, 2004, 7:35 AM   #4
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Thanks for your replies, guys!

lemondster wrote:
Quote:
First question is: what type of action shots are you looking at? baseball, hockey(the greatest sport ever), cars, etc. and how interested are you in taking shots in repid sucession?
Cars and football but maybe also some basketball.

You know, a little bit of everything.


style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"vito:

I know that the 300D can take great pictures and the price is unbeatable. I've just seen a 300D with kit lense and everythingwas sold for655€ at ebay. Hmm, damn.

But I still don't like the idea of buying a 1-year-old cam when everyone else is upgrading to a 20D and selling his/her 300D.

That's a tough decision.

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Old Dec 12, 2004, 10:02 AM   #5
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I suppose it all depeneds on how much camera you want. You'll have to read the specs, i.e frames / sec, startup time, etc and decide for yourself. Try going to a local camera store and try them all out.

Now, I have a D70 and I love it. I don't notice any noise in my shots except at higher iso's which is still way better than any digicam I've seen. Startup up time is nearly instantaneous. The body has a good feel and is very durable. I hate the pop up flash, but I bought a SB-800 external flash and I love my pictures with it. All in all I'm very happy with my camera. I primarily take people and scenics and do not have problems with exposure or delays. Although I don't take football shots, I feel my camera would be up to it unless I was really into the higher # of frams per second. I love the manual controls as well. I just bought a nikkor 80-200mm lens which is the great. I wish it could zoom in a bit more, but it is very sharp and has f2.8 throughout the zoom range.

As far as the 300D. I don't have this camera so I cannot rave on it like I do mine. I do however have a friend who has one and he loves his. He primarily takes the same type shots I do and doesn't have a problem. I've seen many of his pictures and they look awesome. I've heard to that the 300D pictures in general are perhaps a bit better than the D70 straight from the camera, but I really think both are very good. Check out the sample pictures on Steve's site under each review.

If you choose a 300D over the D70, I would think twice about getting the kit lens. Although the kit lens on the 300D seems to perform well, I don't think it is as good as the kit lens on the D70. The 300D kit lens front end rotates when it focuses so you could not use it with a polarizer for instance.

Ok, I've said enough. I don't have the experience or money for the higher ends; the D70 about broke my bank as it was. Good luck on your decision. I know it is hard.

Michael
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Old Dec 12, 2004, 10:08 AM   #6
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By the way, Vito, congratulations on the new camera!! I know you've been wanting a new one for some time now. I know you must be extremely happy with it. I remember when I first got my D70 I was like a kid in a candy store

I haven't really been doing much with my camera lately though, nor posting here. Unfortunately I've been very busy, getting ready to move, etc , I hope to start picking this all up again in the near future.

Michael
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Old Dec 12, 2004, 10:33 AM   #7
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get a 300D :evil:and invest the rest of the vitamin Mon other stuffs!!
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Old Dec 12, 2004, 11:15 AM   #8
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Hi Guys

I just joined the forum because i am in the same quandry as Kex is ,which Dslr. To add more confusion i have a pentax slr with sigma lenses just the cheap 28-80 and 70-300. I recently quit the photography field b'coz i just couldn't make decent money. I had worked as a portrait photographer as well as an yearbook photographer and i had used a fuji S-2 pro i really liked it except it used to hunt for focus a lot and took a long time to write to the harddrive ( hooked to a laptop by firewire)

Employers don't even want to talk to you if you don't have a Nikon or canon based system otherwise i would be happy with the new pentax istDs. Looking for some views from you guys:?
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Old Dec 12, 2004, 12:19 PM   #9
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The new Canon D20 is probably better - at the moment - than the D70 but obsolescence is with us more and more (and faster and faster) so whatever you buy it will be out of date in a year.

I have had both Canon and Nikon SLR's plus I now have the D70 Nikon, so I can comment somewhat. Comparing the film cameras there was only one choice - the Nikon was better in the hand, better balanced, robust, and reliable like no other. I reckon I have shot several thousand rolls with it over 10 years including a vast amount of motor racing and soccer, and the only problem I ever had was films getting stuck and rewinding, never a problem with the camera. I found the same in comparing the Rebel to the D70, the D70 feeling better.

The considered opinion is that the Rebel was a cut down version of the D10 but the D70 was much more an improvement on the D100 in many areas. It is far more a serious amateur tool than the Rebel, but again it will depend if you need all that. I would particularly mention the SB800 dedicated flash if you are going to buy which in my mind is an absolute marvel. As regards the D20 it is an advancement on the Nikon and the D10 Canon, but at a cost. The D70, now that first demand has been sated, is now dropping in price, which the Canon isn't. That alone might pay the extra lens now!

Turning to lenses there are very good reports of the new HPO F2.8 Sigma, but the point has already been made that lenses are for life, and in this regard Nikon lenses, even old ones, will work with your new digital. I know, because I have four from 24mmup to 500mm, and the "old" 80/200 F2.8 is a marvel for portraits and can be found quite cheap second hand, hardly used. Look at examples on Ebay. I would, from a long term point of view, rather have a Nikon than a Tamron or Sigma lens. Mine have done about, I guess, 100,000 miles on rough terrain, in racing cars, boats, trains, airplane holds (well packed in an alloy case though) and never one problem, like the bodies. The kit lens feels plasticky though, and I have doubts about the longevity, but it has to be admit that it works damned well. I bought the 17/55 F2.8 because of this but a travelling lens it ain't, being heavy. Turning to longer lenses, I have the 70/200 F2.8 VRIFED and TC14E converter, and swear by them. I write for specialist car magazines and photo quality, as you can guess, is very important, and the Nikons has never let me down, either lens or camera.

I empathize with you over the decision because you will be locked in once it is made. The lenses you have will dictate the next body you buy. Interestingly, Canon in the professional market have had it all their own way for a few years, but if you look around now there are becoming a lot more black rather than white lenses out there on the touchline which mustindicate something.

My final comment is that I find the feel of Canons slightly less robust than Nikons. I picked up my old F90X the other day and it clicked, or rather clunked it is so solidly made, away merrily after 10 years of very hard use. It has lost it's lacquer, it is dented and scratched, but works. On the other hand, the Canon SLR I had before it was nowhere near the same quality, and was not as amenable to hold or work with.

I hope this helps, but I am also aware that this might provoke a Canon fan to write in in exactly the opposite vein, confusing you more. I hope that, whatever decision you make, you remain happy with it in the long run, for that is surely what counts the most.
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Old Dec 13, 2004, 12:11 PM   #10
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Thanks very much for your input, cameranserai. That helped a lot, i was leaning towards the D70 mostly due to price and yes i want to get the SB 800 but i may have to wait a bit if i want to stay married :-)
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