Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > What Camera Should I Buy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Dec 17, 2004, 9:37 PM   #21
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12
Default

slipe wrote:
Quote:
I presume the D-Rebel uses a standard mirror that flips-up just before the shutter trips - correct?
Quote:
As far as I know yes. Some have a mirror lock-up. You could make one of those wire sights like the Speed Graphic had.
Right - that would really make me inconspicuous!
Phil V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 3:21 PM   #22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Default

I need a digicam for shooting stills of live performers from which I'd like tohave good quality 8 x 10 enlargements made, so this thread seemed pertinent. I want to keep my total outlay for all required equipment under $800.

In my situation, the distance would typically be about 20' andthe lighting what youmight expect during a live performance. The use of flash is unacceptable and the camera's operation must be relativelyquiet.

Should I concludethat there is no digicam (within my budget) that can adequately satisfy my needs, turning my attention to 35mm (for the same reasonsPhil did)?
Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 3:44 PM   #23
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Quote:
[snip]I wantto keep my total outlay for all required equipment under $800.



Well... $800.00 would be cutting it close. But, check out the Canon Digital Rebel (EOS-300D), and consider buying a 50mm f/1.8 lens with it (this lens is very bright, and sells for less than $100.00). This model will have much lower noise as ISO speeds are increased compared to the non-DSLR models, and can shoot at up to ISO 1600 using the factory firmware.

This combination wouldn't have zoom, but you'd have a 35mm equivalent focal length of around 80mm with it. Because the sensor is smaller than 35mm film, the entire image circle is not used. So, you must multiply the actual focal length of the lens by 1.6x with the Digital Rebel to get the 35mm equivalent focal length -- so, 50mm x 1.6 = 80mm.

The Digital Rebel is selling for about $799 now (with an 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens) from some of the online discounters (but make sure to buy from a "Trusted Vendor" as there are a lot of scam artists around). The kit lens would give you a 35mm equivalent focal range of around 29-88mm on the Digital Rebel (after the 1.6x crop factor).

Canon also has a $100.00 rebate on the Digital Rebel right now that brings the price down to around $699 after the rebate from some vendors.

Canon Digital Rebel Kit w/18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens

Note that the kit lens is really not bright enough for your use. But, the cost difference with and without it is really negligible, and you'll probably want a zoom lens for greater flexibility in other shooting conditions. You could also sell it on Ebay and buy a different zoom later (Canon doesn't offer this lens unless you buy it with the camera as a kit, so it's popular on Ebay).

You'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view the rebate form:

Canon Rebate Form in .pdf format

Here's the lens I'd suggest for existing light use (using your feet for zoom, as it will have a 35mm equivalent focal length of 80mm when used on the Digital Rebel).

Canon 50mm f/1.8 Lens

You'll alsowant a larger memory card for it. So, this will put you a little overbudget if you buy the camera as a kit with the 18-55mm lens + the 50mm f/1.8 + large CompactFlash Card (but not by muchif you buy from a discounter, after factoring in the rebates).


Quote:
The use of flash is unacceptable and the camera's operation must be relativelyquiet.


Well, it does use a mechanical shutter with a mirror, as SLR type cameras do. But, you don't have to worry aboutnoise from the film advancing. :-)

I'dtry one out in a store to see if it's noise level is acceptable or not.





JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 4:11 PM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Default

Thanks for your interesting reply Jim, but even if I stretch my budget to get th equipment you suggest, wouldn't the Digital Rebel be much more physically noisy than a digicam?

In an earlier post in this thread, Phil commented on 'mirror-slap' noise. Ican't have this thing drawing attention because of its operating noise (as opposed to digital noise).
Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 4:22 PM   #25
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Yes, you will hear more noise from an SLR type camera. But, during a live performance, I don't know if anyone would notice it or not. That's why I suggested you check out one in a store so you'll know what to expect.

One thing that you may want to keep in mind is that some performers won't allow photographs to be taken with an SLR type camera (because of the image quality versus any concerns over the sounds of operating it, since they don't want the imagesbeing used for commercial purposes). So, you'd need to make sure that one was even allowed in the venues you plan to photograph.


JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 5:15 PM   #26
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Default

JimC wrote:
Quote:
One thing that you may want to keep in mind is that some performers won't allow photographs to be taken with an SLR type camera (because of the image quality versus any concerns over the sounds of operating it, since they don't want the imagesbeing used for commercial purposes). So, you'd need to make sure that one was even allowed in the venues you plan to photograph.
Yes, I've heard that from people who have been turned away because theywere carryinga 'professional-looking' camera.

That being the case, where does that leave me with my original question aboutwhether a digicam can satisfy my needs (or is 35mm a better option)?
Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 5:38 PM   #27
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Artie wrote:
Quote:
JimC wrote:
Quote:
One thing that you may want to keep in mind is that some performers won't allow photographs to be taken with an SLR type camera (because of the image quality versus any concerns over the sounds of operating it, since they don't want the imagesbeing used for commercial purposes). So, you'd need to make sure that one was even allowed in the venues you plan to photograph.
Yes, I've heard that from people who have been turned away because theywere carryinga 'professional-looking' camera.

That being the case, where does that leave me with my original question aboutwhether a digicam can satisfy my needs (or is 35mm a better option)?
Well, if it were me, I'd consider going used and getting something like an Olympus C-3040z. It's using a 3MP 1/1.8" CCD with a bright f/1.8-2.6 lens. But, this model has it's drawbacks, too --for example: no noise reduction on longer exposures to reduce hot pixels, obsolete media (uses Smartmedia which is only available in sizes up to 128mb).

You could also look at one of the discontinued 4MP models with a bright lens (Olympus C-4040z, Canon G3). These should all perform a little better than the latest crop of cameras from a noise perspective, and their lenses are much brighter than average.

You'll still have some noise at higher ISO speeds, but you could software to reduce it. A good free package is Noiseware from http://www.imagenomic.com

A lot would depend on how low the light is whether or not any of the non-DSLR models would work well enough to meet your needs. A DSLR is the best solution, depending on your perception of quality.

You may also want to read through this recent thread discussing the same subject (camera for concert use):

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=87
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 6:04 PM   #28
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Default

Thanks for all of that good advice Jim! Actually, you're the 2nd knowledgeable person to recommend the Canon G3 for my purpose.

Where are some reliable placesto look for a G3 at a decent price?
Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 6:49 PM   #29
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Artie wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for all of that good advice Jim! Actually, you're the 2nd knowledgeable person to recommend the Canon G3 for my purpose.

Where are some reliable placesto look for a G3 at a decent price?
Well, you mayor may not be satisified with the results. It's lens is twice as bright as most models, and it's 4MP 1/1.8" CCD isn't as bad as some of the newer CCD's from a noise perspective. It's also about 2/3 stop faster than it's rated ISO speed. On the downside, it's probably going to have a bit more autofocus lag than some of the newer models (especially in low light). So, this will take some getting used to. But, most digital cameras will have quite a bit of lag in low light trying to focus. It's also possible that you'll need to go with manual focus (depending on how low the light is), which can be cumbersome to use.

Unfortunately, you'll probably need to go used for any of these models (Olympus C-3040z, Olympus C-4040z, Canon G3). They've been discontinued for a while now (replaced by newer models). So, Ebay is probably your best bet if you want to give one a try. Just make sure to check a vendor's reputation carefully (reading customer feedback from previous transactions).




JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2004, 7:49 PM   #30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Default

Thanks again Jim!

I checked-out ebay and found quite a few used G3s for sale. Aside from the seller's feedback, are there any specific questions (other than the condiition of the camera/lens) that I should ask the seller about the camera before bidding on it?

In other words, what are the latent potential problems of a used digicam?
Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:43 AM.