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Old Feb 28, 2005, 3:36 PM   #41
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Some materials on the 6 vs 8 megapixel and printing debate:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=00BBVZ

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...solution.shtml

One thought with the new Canon Rebel is that new DSLR models often have flaws that the manufacturer fixes over time. Most commonly this is a backfocus problem.

With a $2,000 total budget that likely eliminates the Canon 20D and Minolta 7D, although it is possible to pick up the body and a lens for $2,000. You might be able to sneak in a flash with the Canon. With the Minolta a flash is less necessary because of the built in anti shake, allowing you to take advantage of slower shutter speeds.

You can, however, build a nice D70 system,Rebel system or perhaps aPentaxor Olympus system for $2,000.

I would again urge you to not just base your decision on reviews, but a thorough test of all potential systems in the store.

A little more than a week ago I was in your shoes, with around $2,000 (initially) to come up with a body and a lens. My position was a little easier because I knewthat I would buy additional glass in the future. Despite the fact that I was a Nikonuser, and despite the fact that the spec.s of the Canon 20D were nicer, I opted for a Minolta because the combined spec.s AND test drive pointed me there.

In many ways you cannot make a "bad" choice with a DSLR, but there may be better choices than you intially believe. I didn't even consider a non-Canon/Nikon choice until three days before I made my purchase. when on a lark I read aMinolta 7D review.

One last thought. Depending on how close you are to your subject, the kit lens may not have enough reach for you. A second, longer, lens may be required.

In any event, don't overly limit yourself yet. Take test drives before choosing.
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Old Feb 28, 2005, 4:08 PM   #42
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Well as far as test driving goes, I'm tried some cameras and I like D70. It felt the best in my hand and I like the bright lens it comes with.

As for reviews, I do put a lot of stock in them, for better or worse, as I am an amateur at best. This fact also limits my in-store test drives as I'm reluctant to embarass myself with the camera in my hand. But hey, I should get over that as I'm able to laugh at myself.

Canon 20D and Minolta 7D are just too much, so I've got only a few in my price range.

I'll look into the resolution links you sent, but I'm reluctant to mathematically 'create' any pixels, hence I still get swayed by MP size.
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Old Feb 28, 2005, 5:18 PM   #43
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Hi Patton,

I received your PM about a long email. I was unable to view it. If you would, can you PM me the message.

Thanks,
Ponin
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Old Feb 28, 2005, 5:28 PM   #44
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Patton wrote:
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Ponin,

I think you're having an effect on me. After posting recently that I don't think I can take a chance on the Rebel XT, I think I may just do it. The D70 or XT? - it's a win-win situation, really. Both cameras will be excellent, and after having some time to reflect (and hearing your 'voice' in my head about image quality), I'm leaning towards the XT.

Like I said, it's win-win. I'll let you know how it goes.
Yes, win-win is always an excellent position to be in. M.I.T. has a motto concerning double-win. In this case, though, there is one decision that will be a better win considering the position you are in and your particular photographic needs.
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Old Feb 28, 2005, 6:01 PM   #45
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Patton wrote:
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Ponin/jcharding,

You asked for some details about the use of the camera last week.

In the beginning, I was thinking digital SLR all the way, then considered prosumer 8MP megazoomers, but dropped that line of thinking. For a few hundred more, I'll get a much better camera that handles the conditions I'm most often shooting in.

Anyway, I'll be shooting mainly social events, speakers at a lecturn and portraits. Much of it is indoor work and sadly, not very visually exciting. (Someone can/will suggest to me that it's up to the photographer to make the pix exciting but I'm not that good, so I digress...). So much of the work is in decent, but not exceptional light - hence one of the reasons to I moved away from prosumers.

Other things to consider:
- There is no money in the budget, either now or in the future, for additional lenses.
- I'm printing pixs at 300 dpi so 6MP vs. 8MP matters
- I need to get a camera before the end of March
- total cost for ext. Flash, CF card, extra battery for the Rebel XT (I can get all that for about $2,000

I'm waiting for the Rebel to come out, see some reviews and try it out. If it's XT, I'll order it before the end of March - I don't care if I won't get it for a while, as long as I know it's coming - and the budget won't be a concern.

Patton,

I looked at your requirements for the camera. From the printing point alone (second point), you should buy the XT.

I got this from the kenrockwell site jcharding mentioned:

"For instance, for a fairly decent 8x10 you need [8" x 300 DPI] x [10 x 300DPI] or 2,400 x 3,000 pixels, or 7,200,000 pixels, or 7.2 megapixels. This is what the formula at the top calculates the easy way."

If you have a pixel quota that must be met, then you have to decide on the XT, or a Nikon CP8800 or Canon Pro1. But you've decided against the P&S prosumers.

Referring back to your budget, was it $2000 CDN or USD?
Though, I have never tried this, the 420 EX looks nice. You can use it for some social activities, parties, gatherings, wine and cheese's, shoot from 5-7 feet away, but speakers on lecturns, may be a no-no. The 220 EX, I hear is good too, if your budget is tight. But you can also try a Sigma flash, quite a bit cheaper and still quite effective.

You might benefit from a tripod (for speakers on lecturns) in that case since you mentioned it was indoors and use a slower shutter speed. But the XT will be useful, in that it has a Noise Reduction Circuitry (NRC), that will allow you to use faster ISOs (user a faster shutter, but still get a bright enough photo) to compensate for the low light (with reduced noise). Although I am unable to confirm this, since it may fall under proprietary information, Canon could have recycled the NRC from the 20D and put it in the XT. (DIGIC II was already taken from the 1Ds MarkII)

I have seen the EF-S 17-85mm go for around $580-$720CDN (~$460-580USD) when bundled with a Rebel 300D or 20D. Image quality, IMO, is better in the 350D/XT than the D70. Not just mine, but a Nikon fan also agreed with this in another post. It was also mentioned that the Nikon D70 is not as free from noise as the XT will be. I can't confirm this, but it was also mentioned somewhere on these forums.

I hope this helps.

I don't know cameras as much as the moderators, but one moderator mentioned to wait for the XT. They would know better than me.
:|
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Old Feb 28, 2005, 6:12 PM   #46
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If your schedule is tight too, you should look into pre-ordering an XT, just so that you will be able to get one, if the first shipment does sell out. Though it may or may not, no one will really know. This opens doors rather than closes them. If you end up hating the XT, you still have the option of returning it. Also keep in mind to order from a larger company that offers refunds if you change your mind. Sure, a smaller company may sell it for cheaper, but their store policy for returns may be different. (Henry's vs. Aden here in Canada).

I am sure that if you decide you didn't want the camera, and if there was enough demand for it, the store wouldn't mind accepting a return. But always play it safe.

You can, if you want, purchase a CF card and go to a shop and take some photos with the D70. Wait until the XT comes out, do the same, get some photos on the CF card, then compare them.
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Old Feb 28, 2005, 11:40 PM   #47
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I too am trying to decide if the Rebel XT is right for me. I really like the 17-85 lens it seems to be the best all around. What I can't decide is if i should make the step up to the 20d. Will the 20d last technologically any longer than the rebel?
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Old Mar 1, 2005, 12:08 AM   #48
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nbarnett wrote:
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I too am trying to decide if the Rebel XT is right for me. I really like the 17-85 lens it seems to be the best all around. What I can't decide is if i should make the step up to the 20d. Will the 20d last technologically any longer than the rebel?
The 20D is a fantastic camera and better than the XT. The 20D is more technologically advanced than the XT and has more features. It will also outlast the XT in terms of shutter life. 100,000 actuations versus 50,000 (or more for the XT).
The 50,000 actuations is taken from the 300D. The XT will probably have more than that. The 20D uses Canon's long life, durable shutter. Both use DIGIC II and image quality for both are very similar.
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Old Mar 1, 2005, 12:21 AM   #49
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So in your opinion would it be better to pay the extra price for the 20d, but keep it longer than the XT?
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Old Mar 1, 2005, 1:06 AM   #50
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nbarnett wrote:
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So in your opinion would it be better to pay the extra price for the 20d, but keep it longer than the XT?
In my opinion, if the 20D can fit comfortably in your budget, allowing room for the EF-S 17-85mm lens that you mentioned, purchase the 20D. But in so doing, be sure that the 20D will allow room for some accessories and maybe some more lens purchases within 12 months of the camera purchase. If your budget is tighter, get the XT.

But just because the 20D is a better camera than the XT, it does not mean that the 20D is necessarily better for you than the XT. You do have to consider whether the technological advantages of the 20D are useful to you or will ever become useful or necessary for you. Do you need 5fps for sports/action? Do you need 3200 ISO or will 1600 suffice? Do you need a higher buffer? Do you need 9 autofocus zones and a 1/8000s shutter? Do you need a more advanced autofocus system for EF lenses with larger apertures ( >f/2.8 )? Would it bother you a lot if your investment had a polycarbonate body and not one of magnesium alloy and steel?

It really depends on what you want to shoot and how you want to shoot it. :bye::-D
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