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Old May 20, 2005, 9:43 PM   #11
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the.digital.guy wrote:
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Generally speaking; anyone who is serious about PHOTO printing uses an Epson or Canon printer. HP is no were near the quality of Epson and Canon.
FWIW, I have owned printers from Epson, HP and Canon. The text quality from the HP printers I've owned hasbeen superior to printers from the other two.

My last HPwas alsofaster with text (because it's text quality was good enough in draft for my needs and the Canon's draft was not that good). Yea, perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges. Let me put it this way. The speed that provided acceptable quality was faster with the HP, since I could use it in draft mode.

For that matter, I got perfectly acceptable prints on photo paper in draft mode with the HP. Not so from the Canon or Epson printers I've owned. With some paper types, draft mode was the best way to print with the HP (don't ask me why, but the photos were superior in draft mode with some paper types). Now, draft with photo paper is slower than draft with plain paper. So, it probably uses different criteria for what it considers to be draft.

My HP printers have also been more reliable.

My last Epson (780) had too many problems with clogged nozzles and jamming (although they may be better about this now). I wasted a LOT of good photo paper with that printer (printing before realizing I needed a head cleaning cycle). This was a common occurence with it (banding, color problems, etc., until cleaning the heads enough).

I decided to never again buy another Epson printer after that one (even though it was *capable* of nice prints when it was working right, heads cleaned thoroughly, everything aligned right, etc.). Too much trouble, too much wasted paper from my perspective (and it jammed at lot).

I've also had clogged nozzles from Canons (but not as much trouble as Epsons). In fact, I threw away a Canon printer not too long ago (not my most recent one, but an older model) because the heads were clogged and wouldn't unclog via the cleaning cycles.

After my last HP (Photosmart 1215) finally bit the dust (after a LOT of very heavy use), I bought aCanon Pixma iP4000. It just broke yesterday (and it's only 5 months old and use has been very light). I've never had a printer break after such a short period of time (and this printer has been used much less than other printers I've owned). It's dead as a doornail (refuses to powerup at all now).

I'll try to see if there is a fuse somewhere that's blown inside of it that I can get to. But, I'm probablygoing to need yet another printer. Despite the higher cost of operation (ink, etc.), I'll probably go back to HP. At least the HP printers I've owned have been more reliable. I also liked the Auto Head Alignment feature, Auto Paper Type Sensor and the fact I'm changing the heads with every cartridge. I've never had a clogged nozzle with an HP printer, no matter how long I went between printing.

Maybe the iP4000 I got was just a lemon. It did work fine while it worked. Well.. with one or two exceptions. It did seem to take a lot longer before starting to print (whatever kind of warmup cycle it goes through before beginning a print job). This was an irritant.

I do like the dual paper feeds in the iP4000 better. My wife has some non-standard paper stock that fed well through the rear feed (and my older HP was starting to get worn out from MANY reams of paper, and jamming more frequently with it's front feed only design). Of course, the Canon has not seen much use (and my HP had DRAMATICALLY more use before it started having problems).

If I can fix the Canon, I'll probably keep it. Perhaps there's a fuse inside of it somewhere (the power cord is good but it's dead).Otherwise, I'm not inclined to have it repaired. I'll trash it and buy another HP.
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Old May 20, 2005, 10:22 PM   #12
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my previous printer was also an HP 1215 before my 8450 and i never had a single problem with it.. in fact, i gave it to my mom to replace an old printer of hers and she has been happily using it over the last couple of months as well.. it has had many photos and documents run through it without a hitch..
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Old May 20, 2005, 10:32 PM   #13
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Hards80 wrote:
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my previous printer was also an HP 1215 before my 8450 and i never had a single problem with it.. in fact, i gave it to my mom to replace an old printer of hers and she has been happily using it over the last couple of months as well.. it has had many photos and documents run through it without a hitch..
I have no idea how much paper has been run through the HP 1215 I owned, but it was one heck of a lot of paper.

I can remember doing thousands of pages (color, including a photo)with thatprinter in one very long run (replacing ink cartridges along the way) one time for a friend (trying to raise money for someone dying of cancer, and he wanted to send pictures of her to all of his customers).

I've probably used it as much in one day in the past, as I have the Canon iP4000since I've owned it.

It's actually my fault the HP broke. I was using a very heavy card stock through it (non-standard, smaller paper size, too) for a mailing my wife wanted me to print for her.When it jammed, I pulled out the paper the wrong way and broke off one of the plastic guides. I found this out when it spit out the plastic part I broke off when printing. Otherwise, I feel confidentit would still be going strong.

Yea -- it had it's faults. I found that draft mode actually worked best with some papers (and it's MUCH faster in draft, too). I also had to "tweak" the ink volume settings for best results (down, not up, so it used less ink this way). LOL

Trust me, I would not have purchased a new printer if I didn't break that one (despite HP's higher consumables costs). It was just too darn trouble free.
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Old May 20, 2005, 11:18 PM   #14
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JimC-

it sounds like to me your next printer should be the 8450 or (8750 if you desire wide-carriage).. it has served meserved me very well since i retired my 1215 to my mom..i recentlydid all of the class pictures, including large group, small groups, individuals, etc, for my grad school graduation and subsequent printings.. i have printed hundreds upon hundreds of pictures, interspersed withterm papers etc,through the 8450 over the last few months, and have had no problems whatsoever, (besides a burnt power cable from a lightning strike, replaced no questions), not one single paper jam, no clogging, nothing.. and the prints are just beautiful.. the 8 colors with the photo grey make for outstading color and b&w photos with a much wider gamut than the 1215.. and i find that it is very accepting of multiple paper makes.. my two favorites at the moment are redriver polar satin and ilford galerie classic pearl.. but it seems to do well on about anything i throw at it.. and it was a bargain at less than 200$ (necessary for us lifetime students)...



-Dustin
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Old May 20, 2005, 11:40 PM   #15
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Dustin:

I'll take a look to see what's out there from HP if there is not something simple wrong with the Canon that I can fix (like a blown fuse inside of it somewhere).

To be fair, the Canons do have lower consumables cost (and the photo quality is pretty good). Ialso like the dual paper feed better. So, I could live with one if need be.

I do miss the HP features (isn't that laser paper sensor pretty neat?) LOL No alignment and head cleaning headaches, either (and that is worth a lot to me).

The HP was capable of pretty nice photos (although it did require tweaking the default settings for best results). Of course, I was pretty good at tweaking it since I owned it for a long time. ;-)

I can imagine that they've improved a lot since the 1215 I had (but it would *still* be good enough for my limited needs).

In any event, we've hijacked this thread (and I should know better, since I'm a moderator).

But, the OP did mention scanners and printers, including the Canon I own that just broke (so theposts over printer types was probably justified in this context, even though it's not appropriate for this particular forum).

My wife is yelling at me to come to bed. So, you guys have a great night. I'll look into my printer problem in the morning.


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Old May 21, 2005, 1:03 AM   #16
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I am not a big fan of Canon cameras, as I do not like thier menus/interfaces at all, but I like my Canon printer. The two other ones before that were 2 very reliable HPs, but it's hard to compare quality since they were made at so many different times. The old HP 540 was probably from 1995, the 930c probably from 2001, and our new Canon 560i is from 2004. The 930c was a huge ink hog, one of the main reason we switched it out. I've made some really nice prints with the Canon from my new Fuji-cam. Usually we order our pictures from Snapfish, however.

IMHO, Epsons are descent. I've never thought they were excellent or bad. In fact, I've never really loved a printer. I can safely say I hate Lexmarks though. With a passion.
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Old May 21, 2005, 3:47 AM   #17
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Ok, I'll let you hi jack it Jim:G

It is interesting actually hearing about peples comments on printers. I used to sell them, and thats when I became an HP fan. For ALL ROUND use, I just don't think they can be beaten, and the quality of text is FAR superior to most other makes. For pictures, I do like Epson quality, which seems to have an edge over HP, but I think i'll propbaly go for yet another HP when my trusty 5 year old 840c goes to that big pare ream in the sky.

I know for a fact it has printed well over 10,000 pages of print. and several hundered photos - so I really can't complain. But, it is a shame that HP comsumables are SO expensive.

Thanks for joining inJim,

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Old May 21, 2005, 6:06 AM   #18
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Recently went with a friend to camera house (local camera shop, sells all makes), shes looking for a new prosumer model. She has owned a Sony that did her really well and a Fuji that has stuffed up after only just running out of warranty (it took really great photos though). Anyway, the guy who owns Camera house here is a self professed Nikon addict. he actually told her that two Canons (one a G6 I cant remember the other) were the best he had tested. He also confirmed that canon software was excellent, he went out with his 12 mega pixel Nikon DSLR the other day to get a shot to be stitched together. He came home and used canon stitch software as he claims that it is way better than anything else he has used. If a Nikon fan says a Canon is a great camera, thats saying something. perhaps the Canons are found to be the best buys when tested and it is not some conspiracy after all:-)
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Old May 21, 2005, 6:11 AM   #19
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Also, I own a canon printer that I use for printing out my business stuff but for my photos, my HP photosmart is a wonderful printer that I wont be swapping for any other brand in the near future.
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Old May 21, 2005, 8:17 AM   #20
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When it comes down to it, I think all of the major manufacturers have good products and badproducts from time to time.

QC is probably a big issue with all of them, too. You see reports from time to time about any model breaking. Of course, this can form a lasting impression on a buyer when it happens, even if the problem is rare.

I can remember rushing to get a new printer when my last Epson finally refused to feed paper anymore (wouldn't stop jamming, no matter what I tried), and I needed to print something right then. That, coupled with all of the paper I wasted in this printer because of clogged nozzles, turned me against the brand entirely. I think I had more "bad photos" than "good photos" out of this particular printer (because of clogging and alignment problems). I absolutely would not buy another Epson because of it (even though it *could* produce great prints when it was working perfectly).

Is that fair to Epson? Probably not.Mine was probably just a "lemon". It happens from time to time.

Was I ticked off two days ago when my Canon quit working? You betcha. I just bought it mid December (5 months ago), and it's seen very little use. Is this the typical user experience with this printer? Not that I've seen. It was probably just a "fluke" (and I'm still going to see if it's simply a blown fuse in the printer, or something similar causing the problem).

Yet, my last HP was reliable as it could be, never clogged, automatically aligned itself when swapping cartridges, etc. So, out of these 3 printer brands, which one I am going to lean towards next time around? You got it, the HP.

Yet, I don't doubt that some users have the opposite experiences that I had (their HP broke and their Canon's been working for ages, etc.). You tend to remember it more when products you've owned have problems.

I tend to look for consistency and reliabilty in a product. Ditto with cameras.

I can remember owning an Epson Camera at one pont (Epson PhotoPC 3000z). I owned a Nikon Coolpix 990 around the same time frame. The Epson was capable of producing better photos than the Nikon -- no doubt about it. They both used the same sensor, but the Epson lens was sharper.

Which camera did I like better? The Nikon. It's metering, autofocus and white balancewere more consistent/reliable. Even though the Epson could produce better photos, the Nikon produced *more* good photos in a greater variety of conditions.

Same for printers. My last Epson printer was capable of producing nicer photos compared to my last HP *when* it was working perfectly.

Yet, my HP was far more consistent/reliable (and it would absolutely blow the Epson quality away for things like text andphotos on non-premiumpaper -- especially if you compared them in draft mode). The Epson was little better *when* it worked right, on premium paper in best modes.

In either case (cameras or printers), I'd rather have every photo look good, compared to some great and some bad.

Since there is really not *that* much quality difference between similar models from major manufacturers, I usually go for consistency/reliability when shopping.
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