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Old Jun 6, 2005, 3:57 PM   #11
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Thank you everyone. Yes we are talking ultracompact, and I am willing to accept the image quality and I know all the cons to having a small camera. So you seem very fond of the P200. Can you send me some sample lowlight photos? Also pic-it thanks for your advice, but what camera did you end up choosing? Also, pic guy, is are we talking small pants pockets or extremely baggy pants pockets. The P200 seems tempting because of its size, imaage quality, flash, manual controls, and finally all the lens accessories availible. Thanks again
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Old Jun 6, 2005, 4:16 PM   #12
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too busy101 wrote:
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Thank you everyone. Yes we are talking ultracompact, and I am willing to accept the image quality and I know all the cons to having a small camera. So you seem very fond of the P200. Can you send me some sample lowlight photos? Also pic-it thanks for your advice, but what camera did you end up choosing? Also, pic guy, is are we talking small pants pockets or extremely baggy pants pockets. The P200 seems tempting because of its size, imaage quality, flash, manual controls, and finally all the lens accessories availible. Thanks again
Listen - you cant get good pictures in low light without flash using ultra compact cameras. Even the best salesman cant move the law of physics. Ultra compact cameras means small optics. Small optics demands light to perform.

From what you say, what you need is a medium sized camera with larger optics, not a ultra compact camera.

If you realy want to go for a ultra compact camera, the Casio Z750 is the top camera today - also in low light.

If you compare with the Sony P200:

Only 2.0" LCD
6mm thicker and 17mm whider
Use Memory Stick, and not SD card !
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Old Jun 6, 2005, 5:26 PM   #13
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It is a tough choice between the P200 and Casio Z750. They both have nice features.

The P200 has a protective clear plastic cover over the LCD. I damaged the LCD on another pocket camera so I would like the feature. It is I think the only small camera that doesn't give red eye. The long shape let them put the flash further from the lens. Someone pointed out that will give shadows with someone standing next to a wall, but I think I would rather not have to bother with red eye.

Casio started the trend of large LCDs on small cameras and I hope they have started another with large LCDs and a viewfinder. Most tiny cameras with a large LCD don't have an optical finder. The LCD doesn't have very high resolution, but I'll still take the size. You get red eye as with most other small cameras except the Sony. The 750Z has a true manual focus along with a full range of manual exposure modes. The Sony has a manual exposure and some pre-set manual focus distances – not as versatile if you want that.

They both have great MPEG4 large movie modes with good frame rates. I like the 5 second buffer on the Casio. Neither have very strong flashes compared to the competition, but they both focus well in low light.

I don't see where one would have an advantage over the other in low light. They are both f2.8 at wide and the Sony is f5.4 compared to f5.1 on the Casio at telephoto. ASA 400 is more useable on the Sony because of less noise, so it should have a slight advantage if anything. But as has been said, no small camera is going to give you decent indoor shots without using the flash. An exception might be the Panasonic FX7 with stabilization, but it has a lot of bad features like no optical finder and a LCD that doesn't brighten properly in low light.

Even with the difference between high speed SD and Memory Stick Pro, the Sony will come out a good bit cheaper.

If you decide on the Casio be very careful of the large LCD in your pocket. Put the LCD against your leg and don't carry anything else in that pocket. If you don't need the good movies and 5Mp is sufficient, the Pentax S5i actually fits in an Altoids tin. People line the Altoids tin with tape and use it as a very secure carry case. Unfortunately I didn't do that and messed up the LCD on my S4. The S5i is about $250 delivered from Beach Cameras.

I'm looking for a replacement and am having a hard time deciding between the P200 and 750Z. I've been hoping someone besides Panasonic would come out with a small stabilized camera, but I'm thinking I'll probably be disappointed.

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Old Jun 6, 2005, 6:50 PM   #14
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too busy101 wrote:
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Thank you everyone. Yes we are talking ultracompact, and I am willing to accept the image quality and I know all the cons to having a small camera. So you seem very fond of the P200. Can you send me some sample lowlight photos? Also pic-it thanks for your advice, but what camera did you end up choosing? Also, pic guy, is are we talking small pants pockets or extremely baggy pants pockets. The P200 seems tempting because of its size, imaage quality, flash, manual controls, and finally all the lens accessories availible. Thanks again
I usually wear Dockers which are not skin tight but they are also not real baggy. Any pant pocket you could easily fit a cell phone into will carry a P200 with no problems. Also, I can't stress enough the peace of mind having the thick LCD protector on the display. It really makes the camera much tougher than most of its competition. I don't see why all the manufacturers use this type of cover. It doesn't hurt the function of the display in any way.

Here is a low light pictures. It is a hand held shot at, I believe, 1/30 second shutter speed.

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Old Jun 6, 2005, 6:53 PM   #15
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Here is another long exposure shot with the camera setting on the table.
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Old Jun 6, 2005, 6:55 PM   #16
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Here is a shot I took in a store of a bird without the flash.
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Old Jun 6, 2005, 7:03 PM   #17
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Here is a typical landscape picture.
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Old Jun 6, 2005, 7:03 PM   #18
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I'd make sure to test drive any camera you consider in a store, too.

You'll want to make sure you're comfortable withthe camera (control layout, menus, viewfinder useability, etc.). When you get into ultracompact models, how it fits you (physically) can be important.

For example, I personally don't like subcompact cameras with the lens on one side, since I like to hold my cameras withy both hands (and I find models with the lens on one side awkward to holdso that my fingers don't block the lens).Many other users are comfortable with this type of design, and may not use both hands to hold a camera (or learn to live with gripping it in a different way, etc.).


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Old Jun 6, 2005, 7:09 PM   #19
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Here is a closeup of an owl in bright light. Keep in mind that all the pictures I posted have been substantially resized to meet the posting requirements of this site.
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Old Jun 6, 2005, 7:18 PM   #20
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you seem to know the good and bad sides of all the cameras.

what is the most important feature you need. in my case it was battery life.

(this is what i would do)

i put down all the cameras in order of battery so for this it would go
f10 p200 z750 t7

next was most able to go in a pocket
t7 z750 p200 f10

durability was next (this is becoming more personal now)
f10 p200 z750 t7

picture quality (day/night) (very personal)
f10 z750 p200 t7

view finder/lcd
z750 p200 t7 f10

price (I'm an aussie)
f10 p200 t7 z750

so going by this the camera for me best suiting my needs is
f10 4+1+4+4+4+1 =18
z750 2+3+2+3+1+4 =15
p200 3+2+3+2+3+4+3 =16
t7 1+4+1+1+2+2 =11

so for my needs the f10 out of these is most ideal. and i could live with the negatives of this camera fits worst into a pocket & weakest lcd/ no view finder. i would buy it.

And after all this i still don't want to buy the f10 even thought it would fit me best. I would go with the next one down and next one down, till I felt comfortable. There will always be better cameras in the future, so go for the one that fits you well and you like.

Its very odd way to work out things but welcome to my mind!
(slow day at work ;p )
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