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Old Sep 23, 2005, 9:55 PM   #1
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Help!

I'm new to digital photography and I've been pouring over this website for weeks now trying to decide which camera to buy. I've got it narrowed down between the Nikon D50 and the Konica Minolta 5D. Thing is, since there aren't a lot of reviews outyet forthe 5D, I kinda have to base my decision on how well the 7D did.

One review of the7D in Cargo Magazine said:"The 3 frame-per-second drive mode lags when it moves from the sensor to the memory card. This ties up the camera after shooting a sequence of 9-12 shots, making it ill-suited for shooting sports. .."

Does anyone know if this is still an issue on the KM5D? Is there a better choice at this price level for shooting indoor basketballand outdoor tennis?

Thanks.
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Old Sep 23, 2005, 11:25 PM   #2
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Kennybob,

I have used burst modes on the Fuji FinePix S7000, the S5100, and the Pentax *ist DS to take pictures of sports, mostly major league baseball. I don't think any of them have burst modes as good as the camera you are considering. If you have a huge memory card and are shooting fast moving, big time pro sports, maybe youcould profit from a camera better and more expensivethan the 7D.

However, if you want to spend money on a fast shooter for a bit more money, try the Canon EOS-20.

One advantage that the 7D and 5D is built-in image stabilization, which lets you shoot at lower shutter speeds without blurring. That's very good for photographing sports, especially indoor sports.
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Old Sep 24, 2005, 2:26 AM   #3
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"One advantage that the 7D and 5D is built-in image stabilization, which lets you shoot at lower shutter speeds without blurring. That's very good for photographing sports, especially indoor sports."

Sorry, robbo, that just isn't accurate. The way to avoid blurring in an action shot is to "freeze" the action by using a higher shutter speed. Think of image stabilization as a built-in tripod. No matter how still a camera can be held, whether on a tripod or through image stabilization, action that occurs in front of a show shutter speed will be blurred. When shooting a static scene in low light, image stabilization helps to avoid blurring by compensating for movement of the photographer's hands.
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Old Sep 24, 2005, 5:44 AM   #4
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For indoor basketball, make sure you've gotbright lenses (larger apertures, represented by smaller f/stop numbers). Otherwise, you'll have way too many photos with motion blur (what you think is bright indoors won't be to a camera). The "kit" lenses available with the cameras you're looking at won't cut it for indoor sports (they're not bright enough, so needed shutter speeds will be too slow).

At a minimum, I'd go witha lens that has a constant f/2.8 aperture throughout the zoom range. Or, even better,f/2 or brighter primes (non zoom lenses) if the flexibility of a zoom is not absolutely necessary, since you can get brighter primes compared to zooms. You'll need higher ISO speeds (and the 5D goes to ISO 3200) as well as bright lenses to have any chance of freezing movement indoors without a flash.

As for speed, the 5D will have a smaller buffer compared to the 7D (less shots in a row before the buffer fills up and the camera slow down). But, flush time to the media should be good after the buffer fills up (the fastest card will be the Sandisk Extreme III from what I've seen so far).

The 5D's interface to media appears to be one of the fastest on the planet from initialreports (runningover 8MB/second to a Sandisk Extreme III).

You can see some media times here:

http://www.dyxum.com/reviews/cfcard/index.asp

Most DSLR models have a limited buffer size (once the internal memory fills up, a camera slows down since it must then write to the memory card for subsequent shots).

But, I don't know if the review you read took into consideration the newer firmware for the 7D (which increased throughput to media dramatically using a faster CompactFlash Card). You can see the times Steve got with the updated firmware in his 7D review conclusion section here. Steve was using a Lexar 80X Compactflash card (the Sandisk Ultra II and Extreme III cards are even faster in this camera):

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_...xum7d_pg7.html

Steve is working on his 5D review now. When published, check the review conclusion section to give you a better idea of the camera's speed (how many photos in a row before it slows down, and how fast it is when the buffer is full). It should be finished sometime within the next two weeks.



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Old Sep 24, 2005, 6:19 AM   #5
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3-4 seconds is a lifetime in baseball. There is no reason to believe that with practice and good timing, that you would not be able to get great shots during a baseball game with the 5 day. I shoot with the d70 which has about the same speed, and don't have any problems.
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Old Sep 24, 2005, 6:33 AM   #6
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Moderator Note:

There were two identical threads (same question from original poster). So, the two threads have been merged together into this one thread.
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Old Sep 24, 2005, 9:30 AM   #7
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Of course, fast lenses make higher shutter speeds possible and faster shutter speeds reduce or elimnateblur. However, everything else being equal, image stabilization helps.

In 2003 and 2004, I took many shots of NBA basketball with a Fuji S7000 at full zoom (6X - 222MM equivalent). I got lots of sharp shots.

I think that with a decent lens, the KM 5D, should do well in indoor venues, at least venues with lighting as bright as an NBA area.

I used the S7000, S5100, and Pentax *ist DS in burst modeto photograph Major League baseball from distant outfield bleacher seats. I don't think any of those cameras has a faster burst mode or deeper buffer than the 7D. I was quite satisfied with their performance.
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Old Sep 24, 2005, 10:20 AM   #8
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Thank you for all your replies -- and so quickly also! Jim, sorry for the dual post, but when I saw that the word "sports" was truncated from the subject line, the question then seemed silly. Of course any camera can shoot indoor and outdoor pictures. DUH.

Anyway, am just a 43 year old dad who wants to get some decent shots of my son playing high school basketball. He is in the 10th grade, so I figure I have lots of time to practice sports photography before his senior year. I follow the team on the road when I can, so I will have a variety of gyms with different lighting situations. I have been told that his home gym is relatively light compared to others in our area. Nothing like an NBA arena however.

Whichever camera I buy I plan on getting a prime 50mm f/1.x lens just for basketball. I was told that 85mm f1.8 is ideal for high school basketball, so that should be close enough for what I want. With tennis I figure the lighting situation would not merit a special lens - other than the kit lens or a telephoto.

Besides sports I want to shoot landscapes - especially fall leaves - as well as photos of family and friends. We travel some, so a lighter camera is important.Even boudoir photography is an interest for my wife and I am very encouraged by your replies and I feel confident the Anti-shake in the 5D will do well for all these other applications where the subject is not moving.

I've never had more than a 35mm point and shoot so I am very excited.

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Old Sep 24, 2005, 10:42 AM   #9
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Kennybob wrote:
Quote:
Thank you for all your replies -- and so quickly also! Jim, sorry for the dual post, but when I saw that the word "sports" was truncated from the subject line, the question then seemed silly. Of course any camera can shoot indoor and outdoor pictures. DUH.
Ooops... I didn't notice the difference in the subject lines. I've edited the one in this thread so that it includes "Sports". Sorry about that.

Quote:
Whichever camera I buy I plan on getting a prime 50mm f/1.x lens just for basketball. I was told that 85mm f1.8 is ideal, for high school basketball so that should be close enough for what I want. With tennis I figure the lighting situation would not merit a special lens - other than the kit lens or a telephoto.

Yep, lighting can be pretty bad in some high school gyms. One of our Canon users here uses a 50mm f/1.4 more often than not for basketball (he decided he needed something even brighter than a 50mm f/1.8 provided in some conditions).

Of course, the downside of a brighter lens is a shallower depth of field if you try to shoot at wider apertures (not to mention that most lenses are a bit softer shooting wide open). So, getting the right combination for the best results can probably be a bit tricky. I don'tshoot sports, so I don't worry about that kind of thing.

KM makes a 50mm f/1.7 which is available for under $50 used almost anywhere (vendors that sell used lenses like KEH, Adorama, B&H; andEbay). Not too long ago, I bought a used Maxxum 7000, including a 50mm f/1.7 and a Minolta flash for $49 on Ebay. That's probably not the "norm". Someone had a "buy it now" price that low, and I just noticed it before anyone else did. :-)

You can also find the 50mm f/1.4 at pretty decent prices on the used market (although it's going to cost more than the 50mm f/1.7). For the vast majority of conditions, I'd expect the f/1.7 to be great, though (especially with ISO speeds up to 3200 available, although you don't want to use any higher ISO than necessary).

KM also makes an 85mm f/1.4 that is highly regarded. However, you can find the 100mm f/2 for a lot less (I was able to find one at a great price).

I've bought severalMinolta primes on the used market lately (28mm f/2, 50mm f/1.7, 100mm f/2, 135mm f/2.8 , and the prices were pretty darn good on all of them. I probably paid less for my 50mm f/1.7, 100mm f/2 and 135mm f/2.8 combined, than just the 85mm f/1.4 might cost. I expect that for how I use a camera, those will do just fine.

Keep in mind that you'll need to multiply the actual focal length of the lens by 1.5x (actually 1.53x) to get the 35mm equivalent focal length on a KM DSLR (same for Nikon). That's because the sensor is smaller than 35mm film. So, a 50mm lens on one of these DSLR models would give you the same angle of view you'd have with a 75mm lens on a 35mm camera (50mm x 1.5 = 75mm)

I still haven't decided on the body (5D versus 7D). I started buying my lenses first (so I'd get them at better prices on the used market before the "feeding frenzy" started, since the KM will be manufacturing 50,000 camera bodies per month with the 5D).



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Old Sep 24, 2005, 12:53 PM   #10
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JimC wrote:
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Not too long ago, I bought a used Maxxum 7000, including a 50mm f/1.7 and a Minolta flash for $49 on Ebay. That's probably not the "norm".
Jim you're enthusiasm about the KM 7D and 5D is contagious. I just don't know if I can stand it to wait two weeks for Steve's review. I guess I can shop for lenses for it in the meantime. And read the review in the current Popular Photography.

Is the 50mm f/1.7 lens the same one that came with the Maxxum 7000 originally? I have seen a few on e-bay with that lens included.

What would you recommend as a good telephoto or zoom lens for the 5D that would be a good companion for the kit lens (18-70mm f3.5-5.6) ?
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