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Old Oct 18, 2005, 5:29 PM   #1
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12mp camera's on ebay, click here

Please explain to me what I'd be getting if I purchased one of these? If these are the real deal, why aren't they putting these $1000 cameras out of business? A buddy of mine has a pro digital camera that cost him around $1000 and he said his is top of the line and it's 8mp. An amature camera that has 12mp but the best pro is only 8mp????

All I'd be using my camera for is taking pictures with people I meet. Will this 12mp no name brand be better than a 3.1 name brand?? I have an HP digital cam that's 3.1mp that cost me $150, will this no name 12mp cam be better for less?
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Old Oct 18, 2005, 6:10 PM   #2
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Do yourself a favor. Don't assume that higher megapixels = higher quality.

For one thing, there is a big difference between sensor design. Your friend's camera, if it's a DSLR, has a dramatically larger image sensor, with larger photosites for each pixel.

That means more surface area for gathering light so that less amplification of the signal is needed for equivalent ISO speed sensitivity. Amplifying a weak signal can be like trying to turn up the volume on a weak radio station, only instead of static, hiss and hum, you get image noise.

For another thing, these are not 12MP cameras anyway. They're using 5MP CMOS sensors and interpolating the image (adding pixels that were not captured by the camera's sensor). Read the fine print.

I'd hate to see the image quality of a 12MP camera with a sensor this small, even if they did manage to fit in 12 Million photosites into a tiny sensor. It would probably be very bad (noise, dynamic range, etc.).

Also, you need to look at the optics (a very important part). Most of these cheap cameras are using Digital Zoom only (which is like cropping the outside portions from an image leaving the desired part in the center, then adding pixels not captured by the sensor to make the image larger again). This also degrades quality. I keep Digital Zoom disabled on cameras I've owned with it so that I don't accidently use it.

You also have to consider other areas of optical design (how sharp is it, how much contrast, is color transmission good or bad, does it have any chromatic aberrations/color fringing in high contrast areas, etc.).

Color accuracy and image processing algorithms also come into play. Are you going to get green skin in some lighting, are the images being compressed too much, have the appropriate sharpnening, contrast, brightness, etc.).

How good is the metering... Is it going to underexpose or overexpose in different lighting?

How fast is it? Is it going to take forever to focus and forever to write to media?

Getting the picture (no pun intended)?

Try one and see how you like it if you want to. Is it better than your HP? I dunno, you never know about these things. Some of the older HP models didn't have the best reputation for image quality (compared to some of the other popular models from major camera manufacturers). But, chances are it's much better than these cameras you're looking at.



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Old Oct 18, 2005, 6:57 PM   #3
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You're kidding, right? That piece of crap isn't worth the $25.90 shipping and insurance charge. More megapixels does not equal better camera...the quality of the lens, the processor, the sensor size (footprint) and quality combined equal the relative quality of the camera. The camera you are refering to has a 5 MP sensor.
The 12 MP they claim is interpolated. There is no optical zoom, only a digital zoom, which should really destroy what little picture quality there is to start with. There is no auto focus, only a fixed focus, with a two-step manual adjust (whatever that means). The two AAA battery power plant should give you a lot of shooting time.

To answer your questions...

1. You'd be getting a piece of crap.
2. They aren't the real deal, that's why they aren't putting the $1,000 cameras out of business.
3. Sorry, but your buddy has far from the best camera out there. For example, the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II retails for $7,000 to $8,000, and that's just for the body...you still need to buy a lens for a couple thousand more!
4. The camera I mentioned in answer 3, above has a resolution of 16.7 MP. The main thing is the sensor is the size of a full 35 mm frame. Your ebay special is probably a fraction of that.
5. The ebay special will not be better than the 3.1 MP name brand camera.
6. You existing HP camera isn't exactly one of the better cams out there, but it's still better than the ebay special.

The first ebay seller in your link has had 83 negative feedbacks this month...most, if not all, due to garbage cameras.

the Hun

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Old Oct 18, 2005, 6:58 PM   #4
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Wow, thanks for the insight u guys. I love this forum! Best advise for small budget? Like $150 or less. I never use zoom, video/audio, just pics of me and folks at events.
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Old Oct 18, 2005, 6:59 PM   #5
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Sorry Jim, I was busy admiring cameras on ebay and didn't realize you had already replied...didn't mean to jump in on your great answer.

the Hun

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Old Oct 18, 2005, 7:04 PM   #6
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My apologies to the ebay seller...he had 83 negative feedbacks in the past 12 months, not this month as I had stated (I still wouldn't buy from him).

the Hun

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Old Oct 18, 2005, 7:11 PM   #7
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rinniethehun wrote:
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Sorry Jim, I was busy admiring cameras on ebay and didn't realize you had already replied...didn't mean to jump in on your great answer.

the Hun

Actually, I like your reply much better. I was being too nice. :-)




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Old Oct 18, 2005, 7:24 PM   #8
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maxorange wrote:
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Best advise for small budget? Like $150 or less. I never use zoom, video/audio, just pics of me and folks at events.
What do you find limiting about your HP, and what model is it?

$150 or less may be a bit of a tall order to get something that's going to be substantially better in many areas.

What kind of events? You mayneed to take things like flash range, autofocus speed and reliability, and cycle times into consideration. As a general rule, the smaller the camera, the more compromises you will make, too.






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Old Oct 19, 2005, 12:24 PM   #9
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I actually like my3.1 HP, but I've dropped it a few times, and now it's being held together by tape, and it's barely hanging in there. So I'm gonna need to replace it soon. I was just wondering what would be my best choice for that price range. Then I came across those 12mp on ebay and thought wow, what a deal! I'm glad I chatted with you guys first before I jumped on that.
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Old Oct 19, 2005, 1:11 PM   #10
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maxorange wrote:
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I actually like my3.1 HP, but I've dropped it a few times, and now it's being held together by tape, and it's barely hanging in there. So I'm gonna need to replace it soon. I was just wondering what would be my best choice for that price range. Then I came across those 12mp on ebay and thought wow, what a deal! I'm glad I chatted with you guys first before I jumped on that.

A serious contender in that price-range would have to be the Canon A510. It's worth a look, and is pretty close to $150 street price.


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