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Old Nov 30, 2005, 11:51 AM   #11
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Large focal range zooms like the 18-200 are certainly convenient, and probably performs better than the ultra zoom prosumer equivelent(except maybe they don't have a big aparture as some prosumer does). But as any zoom of the kind, its a compromise in many area. Barrel distortion is usually an issue since the optics are not optimized throughout the range. But they are certainly no worse I think to any prosumer equivelent.




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Old Dec 1, 2005, 6:37 AM   #12
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Someone above mentioned that DSLR photos often need tweaking......what does this mean? I have photoshop elements 3.0 and I like to play around with that and my photos, but wat does it mean to tweak a photo and do I have to do that to all the photos I would be taking with a DSLR?

Also what kind of lens would be good to do macro? This is something I really would like to learn more about and (sorry for bombarding with all the questions) compared to a digicam how far will the 17-85mm kit lens zoom, for example my current cam has a 3x optical zoom on it (which really doesn't get me very far), then howmuch further will the kit lens take me.

This is why I was drawn to the Canon S2 IS because of the 12x zoom with IS. It is a 5mp cam, but I have that now and the largest I ever print is A4 size, which is occasionally. I have to admit I'm still not sure about which one to get. The Canon S2 IS or the KM 5D, I went back to the store again and held both and all of a sudden the canon felt pretty good, butso did the KM 5 D. I know they are two totally different cameras and the price difference is not a concern to me, I just want to get what is good for me.

I just need to be able to take good (fairly) fast shots of my daughter when she's playing and I really want to expand my photography experience. I'm even starting to think about getting the Canon S2 IS first and getting familiar with that and moving up to DSLR in a few months or a year or so (whenever I feel the need to). But will the canon do for me what I need it to do?

I really appreciate all of your help here and I'm learning more everyday.

Thanks - Mel
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Old Dec 1, 2005, 9:25 AM   #13
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Image tweaking: Most DSLR are setup such that the image are closer to what was captured natively by the Camera, which means the original image quality will be depending on your lens and condition, like any other camera. Except the fact that DSLR allows you to vary the lens. Prosumer have it easy that the processing are tailor to the lens on the camera, so the in camera setting are optimized for that, while with difference lens it'll be hard to get something to be the same, as each lens will present the image to the camera a little differently maybe in hue, sharpness and such. As such the default setting are generally more "generic" in DSLR. So if you shoot jpeg, if your lens is a little soft(read, not as sharp), it'll usually turn out that way. In Prosumer they tend to add more sharpening and contrast to give the image more "punch" out of the camera so they'll look immediately pleasing with fiddling too much with setup. To do the same in DSLR most likely you'll need to turn up setting like sharpening, contrast and so on up a few notch IF you just want to use out of camera image(usually jpeg)directly. Now in DSLR and some higher end Prosumer model, they allow you to shoot "raw" image, which is the native, unprocessed, uncompressedimage. These image are not usable out of the box, as no post processing are applied to them(Post processing like sharpening, white balance..etc) In terms the photographer have to do the post processing, thus giving you more freedom as to what final image you might want to look at, then re-save them as something usable for print or viewing on a regular program and so on.

If you really want to do macro, there are specific macro lens for the job and they incur their own cost anywhere from 2-3 hundred dollars to much more. Most macro are prime lens, designed for macro application, and therefore unlike a zoom lens they don't usually compromise for the optics. A zoom lens will sometimes make a specific range of their optic(most of the time at either extreme ends) to be macro range, and depends on the quality of the lens the result will vary.

My first Canon Powershot A20 was a hopelessly slow digicam, but it is also5 years old, Canon probably moved on considerably(that would be an understatement). I am sure S2 IS will be a great camera, and probably will be more than sufficient for the cause. Your plan sounds reasonable and with a Prosumer you can control most of your parameter pretty well(shutter, aparture, ISO...), the only thing is for each your range will be limited. But they do not stop you from learning what they do to the picture. I moved up from a Prosumer myself(Minolta DiMAGE Z1) and obviously what I learned on that still applies. I think you can't go wrong either way, but DSLR will be faster, but you will have to prepare to spend more as you expand your interest and skill as well.
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Old Dec 1, 2005, 2:19 PM   #14
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melhen wrote:
Quote:
I just need to be able to take good (fairly) fast shots of my daughter when she's playing and I really want to expand my photography experience.

But will the canon do for me what I need it to do?
That depends on entirely what do you want to do and in what conditions.

In daylight non-SLRs can give good results, even from fast moving targets when used right and you know to where target is moving. (or if distance stays fixed/at "infinite")

Low light action photography is where DSLRs really shine compared to non-SLRs.
For low light architecture and landscapes/non-moving targets generally there's way for circumventing noise at higher ISOs and shooting in quite dark.

Also much depends on do you want to have ability for taking videoclips. All good digicams take videos which are comparable/better than VHS quality.
And it's just impossible to capture everything to still images. (video clip ability really saved the day with strong gusts of downburst and torrential rain caused by summer's strongest thunderstorm)


You might want to read this, it covers pretty much all differences, plusses and minuses of both sides.
http://www.neocamera.com/feature_dslr.html

RacingManiac wrote:
Quote:
In Prosumer they tend to add more sharpening and contrast to give the image more "punch" out of the camera so they'll look immediately pleasing with fiddling too much with setup.

Now in DSLR and some higher end Prosumer model, they allow you to shoot "raw" image, which is the native, unprocessed, uncompressed¬*image.
Actually it's Point&Shoots (/Point&Prays) which do strongest "Disneyland" filtering, like glaring colors and excessive sharpening. Also certain makes use this much more than others. (those praised Canons... then Sony has had real obsession for Disneyland "reds")
And this "sharpness" doesn't have anything to do with real sharpness of details, it's just enhancing contrast of edges. Also if lens isn't sharp this can't return accurasy of details.


RAW isn't any image, it's simple raw data from sensor, one monochromatic luminance value per every "pixel".
Real image is interpolated from this data... including selecting ISO which just actually means amplification of that sensors raw signal whose level depends only from used aperture and shutter speed.
And RAW shooting is one which really tests is camera meant for something else than P&S, because multiple consecutive shots in RAW mode require bigger buffer.

Quote:
...DSLR will be faster, but you will have to prepare to spend more as you expand...
And for getting same versatility... especially considering separate macro lenses.
(except you can't get video mode into DSLRs)


So both sides are compromises... they just sacrifice different things to enable other things.


tombell1 wrote:
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The ergonomics of the cameras are at a different level...
Excuse me if I'm heretical but where's that ergonomics of many DSLRs compared to this?
Two control dials?
Non-menu surfing/4-way controller tapping -free settings?
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Old Dec 1, 2005, 3:14 PM   #15
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The most shots I will be taking will be in normal day light outdoors. I hardly ever make any indoor shots and if I do I usually just use the flash (on my current camera) and it gives me results I'm pleased with.

When I take pictures of moving children in normal daylight will the Canon S2 IS be fast and responsive enough for me to freeze the action?
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Old Dec 4, 2005, 12:43 PM   #16
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I just wanted to thank everybody for their advice and let you know that I went and bought the Canon S2 IS yesterday. I decided to start here (seeing that my learning curve is fairly steep) and learn from this camera so that if I want I can always step up to DSLR later on.

I must admit after playing around with it and taking lots of (snap)shots I'm really pleased with my decision. I am still learning about all the manual settings and realize that I have a lot to learn (quess I'll be posting more questions).

What made me decide to go with this camera was the movie mode. I suppose with children that's always nice to have seeing that I don't have a camcorder. And also the 12x zoom was a part of the deciding factor......basically for me at this moment it is a good all-in-one camera for what I need it for.
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