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Old Nov 29, 2005, 1:42 PM   #1
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Hi,

Iam reading the reviews of different camerassince a few days, andafter that i am leaning towards Cannon S2IS due to itsallround performance. Only problem which i have with it is only5MP. I need a camera in 7 or 8 MP range so to print big sozes pictures. My other required features are :

Long zoom (10x), image stabilization, Good noise performance till ISO 200(atleast printable at ISO 200),nice movie mode,goodperformance in case of moving objects, and ofcourse a good battery life.

Pleaseadvise me what cameras i can get with atleast these features.

Fahad
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Old Nov 29, 2005, 6:53 PM   #2
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hi fahad,

I think you should definitely have a look at fuji'S s9000 (9MP) and panasonic's fz30 (8MP). Both have their pros ans cons. You will find a huge amount of information on both of them in this forum. I think basically one could say fuji has a better high iso performance and 28 mm wideangle, while panasonic offers a wider zoom-range (12x instead of 10x), a better lcd and I found it to be quicker in focussing.
From the shots that I saw, I slightly prefer the ones taken with the panasonic, but that is of course subjective.
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Ivan
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 9:18 AM   #3
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Thanks for your reply Ivan. I also liked S9000 but the critical problem with that camera is absence of Image Stabilization which in my opinion is very important for Telezoom. About FZ30 , in all the reviews i have read , its said to be very noisy even at ISO 100 because of its small CCD size in comparision to other 8MP cameras. Thats the reason that Cannon S2IS seems to me only option, but i am not happy with its %MP resolution. If you have any other camera in mind, let me know.

ciao

Fahad
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 9:48 AM   #4
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Also tell me which one to choose between Cannon S2IS and konica Minolta Dimage A200 ?

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Old Nov 30, 2005, 10:40 AM   #5
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hi,

I think you should not give up on the Panasonic that easily. The noise is no secret of course, but I don't think that there will be such a big difference between it and your canon choice. How about comparing steve's test shots?

I don't know much about the minolta, however, as far as I have seen (on dpreview.com) the noise isn't any better than it is with the panasonic either. And then it zooms only to 200 mm instead of 420.

I guess noise is always a problem with all the super-zooms. Samsung's Pro 815 - the last model to be named in this line - is no exception (right to the contrary maybe). Not even fuji's s9000 is noise free, it is just not such a serious issue there.

Have you personally tried handling and ergonomics of any of the mentioned cameras? I consider this a VERY important point. For example I do not like the extending lenses on all the superzooms save fz30 (especially the Samsung looks just ridiculous - and almost obscene - at full telefoto). BEsides, you do not want to carry around a camera that just doesn't "feel right" in your hand, do you?

Anyway...a difficult question no matter what. And maybe I am not the best person to give advice here, since I couldn't even come to a conclusion for myself so far.
I guess we shouldn't take it THAT serious in the end.
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Ivan


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Old Nov 30, 2005, 11:22 AM   #6
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Fahad wrote:
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Also tell me which one to choose between Cannon S2IS and konica Minolta Dimage A200 ?
What do you photograph?
If it's general photography, architecture, landscapes and such A200 would be much better.
Long/super/ultra zooms lack wide angle (except Samsung 815, which lacks image stabilization) and unless you're going to shoot wild animals 200mm is really good for most photography.

Just as example of field of views I took this with 28mm+0.8x converter. (22.4 mm)

For getting 38mm field of view take away 1/3rd from width and height... much over half of picture's area!
(28mm is only 1/6th "narrower")


For ordinary size prints ISO800 would be fully usable:

Visible noise levels at various print size show that the A2 is perfectly suited at ISO 200 (or less) up to 25" wide and at ISO 800 up to 12" wide. The outstanding Canon 20D produces perfectly usable prints up to ISO 1600 even at 25" wide. This demonstrates that even though the A2's noise levels are higher at all ISO sensitivities, for most common print sizes (up to 9"x12"), its full ISO range remains very usable.
http://www.neocamera.com/feature_dslr.html

And KM's Anti-Shake works really well for non moving objects...
So well that in cases where ISO 1600 does not allow a sufficiently fast shutter speed for hand-held photography with the 20D, the A2 managed to produce quite sharp and noise-free pictures using only ISO 200.
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 11:51 AM   #7
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just reminding: fuji s9000 also has 28 mm wideangle.
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 12:10 PM   #8
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If you are willing to give up the long telephoto range I think the A200 is the best of the lot for 8Mp. It has many very nice features and a much larger CCD with decent noise compared to the FZ30. Read some reviews. The Nikon 8800 is also stabilized with the same 2/3 sensor as the A200. I don't like the control setup on the Nikon and raw isn't buffered, but it has a longer zoom if you aren't interested in wide angle.

If you are going to the expense of a large print you are likely to do some post processing. Noise reduction software works well if you took the shot at high ISO. The demo of Neat Image doesn't expire and is considered freeware. I much prefer a plug-in for noise reduction but they aren't free. You can do a lot better job on the noise reduction without degrading the image. For your purposes I wouldn't eliminate the FZ30 unless you don't want to mess with noise software.

The S9000 is a good choice if you do a lot of action photography. Stabilization doesn't help for subject motion. You would need noise reduction software if you used the higher ISOs to capture action though.

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Old Nov 30, 2005, 1:07 PM   #9
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slipe wrote:
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Read some reviews.* The Nikon 8800 is also stabilized with the same 2/3 sensor as the A200.* I don't like the control setup on the Nikon and raw isn't buffered, but it has a longer zoom if you aren't interested in wide angle.
Looks like noise is worse in 8800, also it's limited to ISO400.
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/mi...e_a200-review/
(scroll down to where there's lot of pics on top of each other)



Quote:
The S9000 is a good choice if you do a lot of action photography.
You would need noise reduction software if you used the higher ISOs to capture action though.
I just think its high ISO images have been already washed with so strong watercolor filtering that they don't stand much more noise processing... or its noise removing algorithms might be on such level that RAW+post processing might not give much additional benefit.
Here's comparison between Fuji's "high" ISO sensor and image stabilization in which they used RAW+noise reduction in conversion.

And compare ISO800 shots of A200 and S9000... Those are pretty much equal!
And A200 definitely would benefit from RAW+noise reduction in conversion/post processing, its built-in noise reduction isn't even remotely as strong as in S9000.
(I've seen examples with A2 and in those RAW+right conversion/post processing made noise more than one ISO step lower than in JPGs and it was much better looking finer grain luminance noise instead of this blotchy chroma/color noise)
So Fuji pretty much just crammed way too many megapixels into so small sensor.
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 1:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Looks like noise is worse in 8800, also it's limited to ISO400.
They both have the same sensors that produce the same noise at a given brightness. I would agree the A200 has better in-camera noise filtering. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that with the exception of the few cameras that allow you to turn off the noise filtering, I would rather have the camera with less filtering. Since that same lens has been quite sharp in the D series, I'm guessing the noise filtering might be the reason dpreview listed a disadvantage of the A200 as "soft images". I agree that a noisy ISO800 would have been nice on the 8800 since the noise is less filtered and could be handled nicely with software.

I'm not a big fan of the S9000, but it would be decent for action where you needed a longer zoom.

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